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re: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain (A Hideo Kojima thread)
Posted on 6/16/15 at 8:17 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Posted on 6/16/15 at 8:17 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
I was about to ask the same thing, I've always had a really hard time with following the story of any Metal Gear with Big Boss in it though. Regardless I'm really pumped about the plot of this one if it's about Les Enfants Terribles. The only thing that was weird to me is that both looked exactly like Liquid and neither looked like Solid.
On a side note did I see Ocelot somewhere in there too?
On a side note did I see Ocelot somewhere in there too?
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 8:23 pm
3
Posted on 6/16/15 at 8:45 pm to southeasttiger113
In MGSV:TPP, Ocelot is this dude:
Some of the details are confusing and really not too necessary. I'll post a condensed version of his story so people will be caught up in another post. It'll be spoiler-y, but the last game came out 5 years ago involving Big Boss, so it is what it is at this point.
Some of the details are confusing and really not too necessary. I'll post a condensed version of his story so people will be caught up in another post. It'll be spoiler-y, but the last game came out 5 years ago involving Big Boss, so it is what it is at this point.
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 8:45 pm
Posted on 6/16/15 at 10:00 pm to The Quiet One
SPOILERS
1964 - Virtuous Mission and Operation Snake Eater
Naked Snake, a CIA operative, infiltrates Russia to rescue a rocket scientist who is working on some unknown super-weapon. Snake's commander is a British guy codenamed Major Zero. Snake retrieves the scientist, but during his ex-filtration is ambushed by his mentor (a woman codenamed The Boss), the rest of her unit, and an anti-Khrushchev Russian guy named Volgin. The Boss kicks his arse, takes the scientist, and defects to the USSR. The Boss also gives a small tactical nuclear RPG to Volgin as a "gift". Volgin nukes a secret research facility that was under Khrushchev's control. The Soviets are pissed because they know it was an American-made nuke. The Soviets demand the US fix this shite or they will nuke America back.
A week later, after healing, Naked Snake is sent back to USSR to re-rescue the scientist, kill Volgin, destroy the super-weapon (known as The Shagohod), and kill the traitor...The Boss. A young Ocelot shows up as a commander of a Soviet special forces group and it's unclear whose side he's on because he seems to be helping everyone/no one. Some chick codenamed Eva meets Snake and is a double-agent...posing as the scientist's lover and also helping Snake during the mission.
Eventually, the scientist is killed before Snake can rescue him. Snake is captured, tortured, and loses an eye. Snake escapes. He beats the shite out of Volgin, destroys the Shagohod, and faces The Boss. It's an emotional fight because he loves her as a son would a mother. However, they fight and Snake kills her. He's sad.
Meanwhile, Eva joins Snake and they escape in a plane from Russia. Two MiGs are right on them, but Krushchev calls off the intercept before they're shot down. Eva & Snake get back to Alaska and bump uglies. Snake wakes up the next morning and Eva is gone.
During a scene in which the POTUS is giving Snake a medal and the new codename "Big Boss" (since he defeated The Boss), a tape Eva left behind plays in the background. Eva admits she is really a Chinese agent. She also tells Big Boss that the whole operation was a setup by the US government. The Boss was ordered to defect to spy on the Russians. After Volgin fired the nuke, she was then ordered to sacrifice her life (get killed intentionally) by one of her own in order to satisfy the Russians and avoid a nuclear war.
Big Boss is pissed off at the US, leaves the special forces unit, and leaves the country entirely.
Sidenote: throughout the game, Snake and Ocelot meet several times and fight it out. Eventually, they end up respecting one another. Indeed, Ocelot had the chance to kill Snake near the end, but let's him go. We also learn Ocelot is a triple-agent who was working for Volgin, the KGB, and the CIA.
(There's a game called Portable Ops that's kinda canon, but not important to the story except that Big Boss gets a ton of money and the idea to recruit soldiers that no longer trust their own governments, but still want to be soldiers)
1974 - Peace Walker Incident
10 years later, Big Boss and his new buddy Kaz Miller (half-American/half-Japanese) form a merc group called MSF (militaires sans frontieres...soldiers without borders) in Central America.
A KGB agent posing as a Costa Rican university professor approaches Big Boss about investigating some CIA activity in Costa Rica. This guy also brings one of his students, Paz, along to further sweet-talk Big Boss into this mission. Big Boss tells him to frick off, but then the KGB dude pulls out a tape recording that seems to have The Boss's voice on it. Big Boss decides to check it out because The Boss is supposed to be kinda dead for the last 10 years. To sweeten the deal, the KGB agent gives Big Boss and MSF an off-shore plant to use as a mother base to build their merc group.
Big Boss investigates and realizes the CIA has brought nukes into Costa Rica...a big no-no and one that could spark a serious international incident. Eventually, Big Boss tracks down a scientist, Huey, who explains that he and his cohort were building Peace Walker, an AI-controlled nuke-capable machine. Huey also says that his employer is going to launch a real nuke to prove that his machine works and is capable of proving that nuclear deterrence theory works only if humans are out of the equation. Huey is against that, so he joins Big Boss's gang.
Big Boss catches up to the other scientist, a bi-sexual babe named Dr. Strangelove. She tells Big Boss that the AI was modeled after The Boss. She got all these CIA files on her and used that information to create the smartest AI she could. Big Boss is freaked because there's the slightest hint of The Boss's "soul" in the system.
Eventually, Big Boss fights this machine and defeats it. However, the head CIA dude, codenamed Hot Coldman, inputs a command to send false nuke warnings to NORAD. CIA dude is killed. Big Boss contacts NORAD and tells them what they're seeing isn't real. Meanwhile, The Boss AI drowns itself in the Gulf of Mexico to cut the signal...essentially committing suicide to spare humanity. This parallels what the real Boss did 10 years earlier.
The KGB dude ends up killed, too, after being unsuccessfully recruited to join MSF. MSF recovers the nuke and builds its own nuke deterrence weapon to ensure countries don't attack their plant. Paz, the sweet student who was staying with MSF throughout the game, turns out to be a spy for some organization called Cipher--led by Major Zero. She tries to steal the nuke weapon (called Metal Gear Zeke) from MSF. Big Boss stops her. She falls into the ocean, presumably dead. Game over. Big Boss, Kaz, Huey, and a couple other semi-notable characters continue to run MSF. Big Boss, having never been comfortable with that code name, decides to formally accept his new role and lead this merc group.
1975 - Ground Zeroes (Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes)
Big Boss and Kaz learn that Paz somehow survived in the ocean after being rescued by some fishermen. Paz is held in Gitmo in Cuba. A kid in MSF named Chico, a former Sandanista child-soldier who was in love with her, runs off and tries to rescue Paz. He's caught. Big Boss goes to Gitmo to rescue Chico and retrieve Paz to interrogate her about this group called Cipher.
Big Boss infiltrates the base, rescues Chico and some other random POWs. He also rescues Paz who has been tortured to near-death by some guy named Skullface (he leads some unit called XOF). On the way back to the off-shore mother base plant, they discover a bomb that has been planted inside Paz. They open her up, pull out the bomb and throw it out. When they reach mother base, it's under attack by XOF and its leader, Skullface. The chopper lands in the middle of a battle and rescues Kaz. As the chopper pulls away, mother base lays in ruins. Their business and dream of a place where soldiers would always have a place in the world is over.
Shortly after, still on the chopper, Paz wakes up and says a second bomb was planted (presumably in her uterus, but it's never directly stated). Paz tries to jump out of the chopper, but it detonates a split second after she does. The chopper is damaged and crashes into another chopper.
Briefly, we see Big Boss on a gurney while medics try to perform CPR. In the background, Kaz is shouting "Don't you die on me, damn it!" Fade to black...
Big Boss opens his eyes in a hospital room. We see he has a prosthetic left arm. Some doc tells him he has been in a coma for nine years. It's 1984.
There, you're caught up to the story. If you want any specific details, fire away. I'd recommend watching the movies on youtube of MGS3, Peace Walker, and Ground Zeroes for the full story.
1964 - Virtuous Mission and Operation Snake Eater
Naked Snake, a CIA operative, infiltrates Russia to rescue a rocket scientist who is working on some unknown super-weapon. Snake's commander is a British guy codenamed Major Zero. Snake retrieves the scientist, but during his ex-filtration is ambushed by his mentor (a woman codenamed The Boss), the rest of her unit, and an anti-Khrushchev Russian guy named Volgin. The Boss kicks his arse, takes the scientist, and defects to the USSR. The Boss also gives a small tactical nuclear RPG to Volgin as a "gift". Volgin nukes a secret research facility that was under Khrushchev's control. The Soviets are pissed because they know it was an American-made nuke. The Soviets demand the US fix this shite or they will nuke America back.
A week later, after healing, Naked Snake is sent back to USSR to re-rescue the scientist, kill Volgin, destroy the super-weapon (known as The Shagohod), and kill the traitor...The Boss. A young Ocelot shows up as a commander of a Soviet special forces group and it's unclear whose side he's on because he seems to be helping everyone/no one. Some chick codenamed Eva meets Snake and is a double-agent...posing as the scientist's lover and also helping Snake during the mission.
Eventually, the scientist is killed before Snake can rescue him. Snake is captured, tortured, and loses an eye. Snake escapes. He beats the shite out of Volgin, destroys the Shagohod, and faces The Boss. It's an emotional fight because he loves her as a son would a mother. However, they fight and Snake kills her. He's sad.
Meanwhile, Eva joins Snake and they escape in a plane from Russia. Two MiGs are right on them, but Krushchev calls off the intercept before they're shot down. Eva & Snake get back to Alaska and bump uglies. Snake wakes up the next morning and Eva is gone.
During a scene in which the POTUS is giving Snake a medal and the new codename "Big Boss" (since he defeated The Boss), a tape Eva left behind plays in the background. Eva admits she is really a Chinese agent. She also tells Big Boss that the whole operation was a setup by the US government. The Boss was ordered to defect to spy on the Russians. After Volgin fired the nuke, she was then ordered to sacrifice her life (get killed intentionally) by one of her own in order to satisfy the Russians and avoid a nuclear war.
Big Boss is pissed off at the US, leaves the special forces unit, and leaves the country entirely.
Sidenote: throughout the game, Snake and Ocelot meet several times and fight it out. Eventually, they end up respecting one another. Indeed, Ocelot had the chance to kill Snake near the end, but let's him go. We also learn Ocelot is a triple-agent who was working for Volgin, the KGB, and the CIA.
(There's a game called Portable Ops that's kinda canon, but not important to the story except that Big Boss gets a ton of money and the idea to recruit soldiers that no longer trust their own governments, but still want to be soldiers)
1974 - Peace Walker Incident
10 years later, Big Boss and his new buddy Kaz Miller (half-American/half-Japanese) form a merc group called MSF (militaires sans frontieres...soldiers without borders) in Central America.
A KGB agent posing as a Costa Rican university professor approaches Big Boss about investigating some CIA activity in Costa Rica. This guy also brings one of his students, Paz, along to further sweet-talk Big Boss into this mission. Big Boss tells him to frick off, but then the KGB dude pulls out a tape recording that seems to have The Boss's voice on it. Big Boss decides to check it out because The Boss is supposed to be kinda dead for the last 10 years. To sweeten the deal, the KGB agent gives Big Boss and MSF an off-shore plant to use as a mother base to build their merc group.
Big Boss investigates and realizes the CIA has brought nukes into Costa Rica...a big no-no and one that could spark a serious international incident. Eventually, Big Boss tracks down a scientist, Huey, who explains that he and his cohort were building Peace Walker, an AI-controlled nuke-capable machine. Huey also says that his employer is going to launch a real nuke to prove that his machine works and is capable of proving that nuclear deterrence theory works only if humans are out of the equation. Huey is against that, so he joins Big Boss's gang.
Big Boss catches up to the other scientist, a bi-sexual babe named Dr. Strangelove. She tells Big Boss that the AI was modeled after The Boss. She got all these CIA files on her and used that information to create the smartest AI she could. Big Boss is freaked because there's the slightest hint of The Boss's "soul" in the system.
Eventually, Big Boss fights this machine and defeats it. However, the head CIA dude, codenamed Hot Coldman, inputs a command to send false nuke warnings to NORAD. CIA dude is killed. Big Boss contacts NORAD and tells them what they're seeing isn't real. Meanwhile, The Boss AI drowns itself in the Gulf of Mexico to cut the signal...essentially committing suicide to spare humanity. This parallels what the real Boss did 10 years earlier.
The KGB dude ends up killed, too, after being unsuccessfully recruited to join MSF. MSF recovers the nuke and builds its own nuke deterrence weapon to ensure countries don't attack their plant. Paz, the sweet student who was staying with MSF throughout the game, turns out to be a spy for some organization called Cipher--led by Major Zero. She tries to steal the nuke weapon (called Metal Gear Zeke) from MSF. Big Boss stops her. She falls into the ocean, presumably dead. Game over. Big Boss, Kaz, Huey, and a couple other semi-notable characters continue to run MSF. Big Boss, having never been comfortable with that code name, decides to formally accept his new role and lead this merc group.
1975 - Ground Zeroes (Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes)
Big Boss and Kaz learn that Paz somehow survived in the ocean after being rescued by some fishermen. Paz is held in Gitmo in Cuba. A kid in MSF named Chico, a former Sandanista child-soldier who was in love with her, runs off and tries to rescue Paz. He's caught. Big Boss goes to Gitmo to rescue Chico and retrieve Paz to interrogate her about this group called Cipher.
Big Boss infiltrates the base, rescues Chico and some other random POWs. He also rescues Paz who has been tortured to near-death by some guy named Skullface (he leads some unit called XOF). On the way back to the off-shore mother base plant, they discover a bomb that has been planted inside Paz. They open her up, pull out the bomb and throw it out. When they reach mother base, it's under attack by XOF and its leader, Skullface. The chopper lands in the middle of a battle and rescues Kaz. As the chopper pulls away, mother base lays in ruins. Their business and dream of a place where soldiers would always have a place in the world is over.
Shortly after, still on the chopper, Paz wakes up and says a second bomb was planted (presumably in her uterus, but it's never directly stated). Paz tries to jump out of the chopper, but it detonates a split second after she does. The chopper is damaged and crashes into another chopper.
Briefly, we see Big Boss on a gurney while medics try to perform CPR. In the background, Kaz is shouting "Don't you die on me, damn it!" Fade to black...
Big Boss opens his eyes in a hospital room. We see he has a prosthetic left arm. Some doc tells him he has been in a coma for nine years. It's 1984.
There, you're caught up to the story. If you want any specific details, fire away. I'd recommend watching the movies on youtube of MGS3, Peace Walker, and Ground Zeroes for the full story.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:01 pm to The Quiet One
Thanks for that! I played MGS3 and ground zeroes and while MGS3 was my favorite game in the series after MGS2 I never really had a good understanding of the story, I felt like it jumped around but I'm glad you posted a good synopsis of it. Also not gonna lie I was pretty pissed that they released a major addition to the story on PSP in peace walkers, guess I'm going on youtube to watch all the cutscenes of that one before september 1.
And in response to the Ocelot pic you posted, I'm guessing that's an aged version of the Ocelot from Snake Eater right?
And in response to the Ocelot pic you posted, I'm guessing that's an aged version of the Ocelot from Snake Eater right?
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:05 pm to The Quiet One
quote:
(There's a game called Portable Ops that's kinda canon, but not important to the story except that Big Boss gets a ton of money and the idea to recruit soldiers that no longer trust their own governments, but still want to be soldiers)
Maybe you glossed over the part in which Ocelot kills the Director of the NSA and takes the entire Philosopher's Legacy...or the introductions of Roy Campbell and Frank Jaeger to Big Boss' team.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:07 pm to southeasttiger113
quote:
The only thing that was weird to me is that both looked exactly like Liquid and neither looked like Solid.
Liquid and Solid are identical twins. If you recall in the intro to "The Twin Snakes", Snake dyes his hair brown and cuts it shorter.
The only one of the three brothers who is an identical clone for Big Boss is Solidus.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:07 pm to southeasttiger113
quote:
Also not gonna lie I was pretty pissed that they released a major addition to the story on PSP in peace walkers, guess I'm going on youtube to watch all the cutscenes of that one before september 1
I didn't play Peace Walker, either, until it was released as a bundle. You can play it on the PS3 if you still have one by purchasing "Metal Gear Solid: The HD Collection" or "Metal Gear Solid: The Legacy Collection". Either should be available used at Gamestop.
Fans tend to hate PW's story, but I liked it. The main game is much easier to play than other MGS titles, but there is some grinding required to build your mother base.
quote:
I'm guessing that's an aged version of the Ocelot from Snake Eater right?
Correct. In Snake Eater, Ocelot was leader of his special forces unit at the age of 19/20. So in TPP, he's about 40 years old.
Not sure if you know this, but there is a hidden codec call in Snake Eater that explains who Ocelot's parents are...don't want to say for sake of spoiling it.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:08 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Maybe you glossed over the part in which Ocelot kills the Director of the NSA and takes the entire Philosopher's Legacy...or the introductions of Roy Campbell and Frank Jaeger to Big Boss' team.
Yeah, mainly because there is a 7900-character limit to the post.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:09 pm to The Quiet One
quote:
Not sure if you know this, but there is a hidden codec call in Snake Eater that explains who Ocelot's parents are...don't want to say for sake of spoiling it.
It's the call about an emergency C-section and a "snake shaped scar".
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:11 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Liquid and Solid are identical twins. If you recall in the intro to "The Twin Snakes", Snake dyes his hair brown and cuts it shorter. The only one of the three brothers who is an identical clone for Big Boss is Solidus.
In MGS4, Naomi says that technically Liquid and Solid not perfect identical twins due to minor variations in their genes.
Otherwise, yep, Solidus is the cut-and-paste of Big Boss.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:11 pm to The Quiet One
quote:
So in TPP, he's about 40 years old.
Ocelot was born on D-Day according to Snake Eater.
That makes him 40 in The Phantom Pain, 61 in The Twin Snakes, 63-65 in Sons Of Liberty, and 70 in Guns of the Patriots.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:12 pm to The Quiet One
quote:
In MGS4, Naomi says that technically Liquid and Solid not perfect identical twins due to minor variations in their genes.
No, but if you look at the gamecube version of Metal Gear Solid (The Twin Snakes), they look identical in the face.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:13 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Ocelot was born on D-Day according to Snake Eater.
haha, too many damn details easily missed. Nice job.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:23 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Really interesting stuff, thanks for clearing that up I actually never got a chance to play the twin snakes, I was a staunch playstationer back in the day still am but yea
I actually never got a chance to play the twin snakes, I was a staunch playstationer back in the day still am but yea Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:27 pm to The Quiet One
I always heard about the HD collection but I was never too big on spending $40 on two games that I'd already played like 1000 times and a handheld to console conversion, kinda felt like it would've been shitty. Did peace walker turn out well enough to make it worth picking up at its current price?
And I'm guessing based off of MGS4 when Ocelot refers to solid (or liquid, can't remember exactly) as brother that they have the same parents
And I'm guessing based off of MGS4 when Ocelot refers to solid (or liquid, can't remember exactly) as brother that they have the same parents
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:38 pm to southeasttiger113
quote:
And I'm guessing based off of MGS4 when Ocelot refers to solid (or liquid, can't remember exactly) as brother that they have the same parents
You didn't finish MGS4 did you?
Ocelot went through intense psychotherapy to take on the persona of Liquid. Over the course of the last fight, Snake literally beats it out of him.
Snake, Liquid, and Solidus' "mother" was Dr. Clarke's (Para-Medic) assistant who was Japanese. The "father" was Big Boss.
EVA was the one who served as the surrogate mother and "gave birth" to all three.
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 11:40 pm
Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:40 pm to southeasttiger113
quote:
I always heard about the HD collection but I was never too big on spending $40 on two games that I'd already played like 1000 times and a handheld to console conversion, kinda felt like it would've been shitty. Did peace walker turn out well enough to make it worth picking up at its current price?
I'll be honest. I'm in the minority of the MGS fans in that I really liked Peace Walker. It's not at the quality of the console Solid series for obvious reasons, but I play it more than I do some of the others. I will say the Extra Ops missions are a grind and it's also a grind to search for and recruit all the best soldiers for mother base. You play the same missions over and over to do that. I love it, but I understand others who would not.
That said, you can breeze through the main story and give token effort to your mother base quite easily. The cutscenes are mainly comic-inspired illustrations instead of fully-rendered stuff you see in other games of the series.
quote:
And I'm guessing based off of MGS4 when Ocelot refers to solid (or liquid, can't remember exactly) as brother that they have the same parents
MGS4 is all kinds of jacked up. In that game, Ocelot is known as Liquid Ocelot. Long story short, he is Liquid Snake in Ocelot's body throughout the game hence why he refers to Solid Snake as "brother".
The reality is Ocelot used hypnotherapy and manipulated his internal nanomachines to fool himself into thinking Liquid Snake shared his mind.
God, that's sounds even worse typing it and reading it back out loud.
I thought MGS4 was awful.Posted on 6/16/15 at 11:55 pm to The Quiet One
quote:
MGS4 is all kinds of jacked up. In that game, Ocelot is known as Liquid Ocelot. Long story short, he is Liquid Snake in Ocelot's body throughout the game hence why he refers to Solid Snake as "brother".
The reality is Ocelot used hypnotherapy and manipulated his internal nanomachines to fool himself into thinking Liquid Snake shared his mind.
It goes back further than that.
In MGS, Gray Fox cuts off Ocelot's right arm at the elbow.
In MGS2, Ocelot grafts Liquid's right arm onto his stump, and with it, the nanomachines that were dormant in Liquid's corpse. Like everything Ocelot does, he played the long con in order to take down Solidus.
By MGS4, Liquid's arm was replaced with a prosthesis. In order to maintain the persona, Ocelot used intense hypnotherapy and psychotherapy to play the role of Liquid.
All part of a long con to bring down the Patriots' AI systems from within.
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 11:56 pm
Posted on 6/17/15 at 12:29 am to The Quiet One
yea that shite was far fetched even for metal gear. I couldn't remember if it was ocelot in liquids body or the other way around but yea, I remember the cutscenes being ridiculously fricking long too, I was around 16 or 17 at the time and there was a 0% chance I was going to stay focused for that long consecutively. I thought the boss fights were cool though, kinda reminded me of MGS1 in that regardPosted on 6/17/15 at 1:12 am to southeasttiger113
quote:
yea that shite was far fetched even for metal gear. I couldn't remember if it was ocelot in liquids body or the other way around but yea, I remember the cutscenes being ridiculously fricking long too, I was around 16 or 17 at the time and there was a 0% chance I was going to stay focused for that long consecutively. I thought the boss fights were cool though, kinda reminded me of MGS1 in that regard
Yeah, I played through it a few times, but I haven't in a long while and probably won't any time soon for some of the reasons you mentioned.
I think that's partly why I'm so stoked for V...other than the Peace Walker HD remake, I really haven't had a true console MGS game I enjoyed since 2004's Snake Eater.
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