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re: Fils-Aime: an artist at saying a lot without saying anything

Posted on 7/2/15 at 3:30 pm to
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 3:30 pm to
I bet zelda comes out for both
This post was edited on 7/2/15 at 3:31 pm
Posted by sicboy
Because Awesome
Member since Nov 2010
77564 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 4:02 pm to
I'm pessimistic since they haven't showed a thing since last year. I saw another article talking about Nintendo addressing the negative feedback for their E3 lineup, saying they didn't plan on talking about anything long term, just the near future IP.
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 4:09 pm to
I really may sell the Wii U
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

All indications at this point suggest that the NX will be both a handheld and a home console. Nintendo has expressed that they're intent on unifying game development between their portable and home platforms, which will likely be accomplished through a shared hardware architecture and OS.


This has been the rumor for over a year, and while I like it, I'm just not certain it's smart because.....

quote:

The portable will likely run games at a lower resolution with reduced graphical effects, while the home console will run the same games at a higher resolution and graphical fidelity.


You're right that this would be one of a few ways to do it, but that puts the nail in the proverbial coffin about Nintendo every making a current-gen console. The only thing that people could hope for in terms of 3rd parties is that Nintendo can woo developers to make ports, finally, that run on both. That might be the saving grace of the system, but I'm not sure that can happen.

Plus, I don't want handheld quality games for most genres on my home console. Madden on handhelds has always been gimped. It's always a different team handling a handheld game, so never the same.

quote:

Each system may have a few exclusives (ie, Pokemon on the handheld), but the goal is to produce a steady output of software on both systems via the unification of the development teams.

Iwata has stated numerous times that they're envious of Apple's current paradigm with iOS, which indicates that they're developing a Steam like ecosystem for all future iterations of their hardware platforms.


It's a nice goal but they have to do it right.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 4:15 pm to
quote:

I really may sell the Wii U


It isn't that bad, it's just become a very focused console. Get the first party games and the occasionally good third party game. Have an X1, PS4 or PC in your back pocket. Everyone wins.
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 4:20 pm to
That's what I use it for but i never play those games.
Posted by Cs
Member since Aug 2008
10464 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 5:01 pm to
quote:

but that puts the nail in the proverbial coffin about Nintendo every making a current-gen console. The only thing that people could hope for in terms of 3rd parties is that Nintendo can woo developers to make ports, finally, that run on both. That might be the saving grace of the system, but I'm not sure that can happen.



That ship sailed a long time ago. I truly doubt Nintendo's next home console will match the PS4 in terms of computational power. If it did, it would mean Nintendo would likely be selling the system at over $300, which won't happen, as Nintendo has stated they don't want to be competing directly with Sony and Microsoft. A $300+ console would put them in that territory.

These slides from Nintendo's recent investor's meeting reveal quite a bit about their intentions:







If anything, Nintendo is on the verge of transforming the entire console paradigm, as I'm sure Sony and Microsoft will quickly follow in Nintendo's footsteps. As these slides indicate, Nintendo has realized that they can no longer support two separate platforms with diverged user bases. With every successive hardware release, they've had to wipe the slate clean and start over - in terms of users owning the system, available games, etc.

Now, it seems Nintendo is emphasizing the development of a software ecosystem that will support all of their future devices. With each hardware variant running the same OS, accessing the same programming libraries, and sporting a similar hardware architecture, each system can access the same pool of games. Thus, all future Nintendo systems will have access to the same massive pool of games, similar to Steam and iOS/Android. Nintendo will no longer have to worry about rebuilding new relationships with consumers via hardware - instead, users can download, buy, and maintain their game libraries via their NNID, and can play them on their console of choice.


quote:

It's a nice goal but they have to do it right.


I agree, and I think Smash 4 is a prime example that Nintendo can get this right. No one would dispute the fact that Smash 4 on the Wii U is the definitive version, yet at the same time, the handheld version doesn't feel like a half-baked, poorly conceived afterthought of the Wii U version - it feels like its own distinctly robust game, ideally suited for a handheld.

I think this is the goal going forward for Nintendo.
This post was edited on 7/2/15 at 5:18 pm
Posted by hawgfaninc
https://youtu.be/torc9P4-k5A
Member since Nov 2011
46357 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 5:32 pm to
quote:

I really may sell the Wii U

you should probably be patient, unless you really need the money
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 6:13 pm to
quote:

If anything, Nintendo is on the verge of transforming the entire console paradigm, as I'm sure Sony and Microsoft will quickly follow in Nintendo's footsteps. As these slides indicate, Nintendo has realized that they can no longer support two separate platforms with diverged user bases. With every successive hardware release, they've had to wipe the slate clean and start over - in terms of users owning the system, available games, etc.

Now, it seems Nintendo is emphasizing the development of a software ecosystem that will support all of their future devices. With each hardware variant running the same OS, accessing the same programming libraries, and sporting a similar hardware architecture, each system can access the same pool of games. Thus, all future Nintendo systems will have access to the same massive pool of games, similar to Steam and iOS/Android. Nintendo will no longer have to worry about rebuilding new relationships with consumers via hardware - instead, users can download, buy, and maintain their game libraries via their NNID, and can play them on their console of choice.


Good points. Do you think they shift their tech even further down the scale, making "indie-typed" sized games with higher production values? That might be the only way to make a game for both systems.

quote:

I agree, and I think Smash 4 is a prime example that Nintendo can get this right. No one would dispute the fact that Smash 4 on the Wii U is the definitive version, yet at the same time, the handheld version doesn't feel like a half-baked, poorly conceived afterthought of the Wii U version - it feels like its own distinctly robust game, ideally suited for a handheld.


See I think the Smash model is wrong, it's still making two separate games. That just doubles all of their efforts on fewer game types.
Posted by Cs
Member since Aug 2008
10464 posts
Posted on 7/2/15 at 6:57 pm to
quote:

Good points. Do you think they shift their tech even further down the scale, making "indie-typed" sized games with higher production values? That might be the only way to make a game for both systems


See I think the Smash model is wrong, it's still making two separate games. That just doubles all of their efforts on fewer game types.



I think the architectural confluence of Nintendo's future systems will allow them to proceed in the opposite direction, actually. Nintendo has been bogged down this generation by needing to support both the 3DS and the Wii U, which was particularly straining as they completely underestimated the difficulty and production costs of creating AAA titles in higher resolutions.

I think the Smash 4 model is the gold standard for Nintendo, and it's something they're probably going to want to execute with all of their major titles. The problem with Smash 4's development, however, was that there were two completely separate teams developing the game - one for the 3DS, and one for the Wii U. This is due to the wildly different architectures of the two systems - the Wii U is running on an outmoded PowerPC chip, while the 3DS employs an ARM chip. They essentially had to have two separate teams writing two completely different sets and types of code. Game logic, optimization, netcode, etc...all of it had to be created twice by two different teams. This was incredibly inefficient and resource intensive.

I think the goal going forward is to unify their development talent instead of spreading them thin, and it seems they're attempting to do this by homogenizing the hardware and software across all of their future platforms. Ideally, developers will only have to code for one specific architecture, which can then scale across both the handheld and console. This frees up development time and allows Nintendo to allocate resources to additional projects.

This post was edited on 7/2/15 at 7:00 pm
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 7/3/15 at 7:28 am to
quote:

I think the goal going forward is to unify their development talent instead of spreading them thin, and it seems they're attempting to do this by homogenizing the hardware and software across all of their future platforms. Ideally, developers will only have to code for one specific architecture, which can then scale across both the handheld and console. This frees up development time and allows Nintendo to allocate resources to additional projects.


But that means keeping the Console and Portable Systems relatively close together in terms of power and design correct?
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 7/3/15 at 8:13 am to
I've wondered this too. It is possible they could render the games at different setting for console or portable use. That is more work but if the architectures are the same then it could help. Of course I'm not a game developer.
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58036 posts
Posted on 7/4/15 at 11:54 am to
quote:

This is why the n64 had cartridges

why the GameCube used those to tiny disks and did not play DVDs


Wrong on all three counts here. They used carts and the mini optical disks /c those were both proprietary formats that 3rd party publishers had to pay Nintendo to use.

They didn't have a DVD player on the GCN b/c they didn't want to pay Sony to have one in there due to their experience w/Sony being a terrible partner during the SNES days. First, they sneaked a proprietary piece of hardware into the SNES sound chip that forced companies to pay Sony to access the full power of the chip. Then they were trying to essentially steal Nintendo's IPs and the SNES out from under them when they were working on the Playstation together by hiding specific language deep inside the deal. This is the same reason the Wii can play DVDs if you mod it via Homebrew channel but couldn't do it right out of the box.
quote:


why Windwaker was developed


Windwaker is a top 3 Zelda game and has aged better than all the 3D games in the series specifically b/c they went with cel shaded graphics.
quote:


and why the Wii U exists.


It exists b/c they were trying to innovate like they did with the Wii. There were two big mistakes with the WiiU launch. Neither of those involve the tablet controller or making a system that was not as strong as the One or PS4.

Mistake #1 was not clearly differentiating the WiiU from the Wii. Even today I still find people who flat out don't understand that the WiiU is a new system and not just an extra controller for the Wii. Naming it Wii2 or coming up with a non Wii name would have done wonders.

Mistake #2 was listening to the whiny 3rd party game developers who constantly bitched about never being able to get sales of their games vs Nintendo published games. Nintendo said ok, we'll hold off on releasing some of our bigger series so you guys can establish your stuff at launch. Ubi, Activition, EA etc then proceeded to once again put minimal effort in their WiiU iterations of their series which predictably led to lower sales. When you go ahead and tell gamers that a specific system is not getting things like DLC, constant online maintenance, and ship games 6-8 months later than the versions on the other systems you aren't going to sell said games at a solid clip.
This post was edited on 7/4/15 at 12:05 pm
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 7/4/15 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

Mistake #1 was not clearly differentiating the WiiU from the Wii. Even today I still find people who flat out don't understand that the WiiU is a new system and not just an extra controller for the Wii. Naming it Wii2 or coming up with a non Wii name would have done wonders.

Agree.

quote:

Mistake #2 was listening to the whiny 3rd party game developers who constantly bitched about never being able to get sales of their games vs Nintendo published games. Nintendo said ok, we'll hold off on releasing some of our bigger series so you guys can establish your stuff at launch. Ubi, Activition, EA etc then proceeded to once again put minimal effort in their WiiU iterations of their series which predictably led to lower sales. When you go ahead and tell gamers that a specific system is not getting things like DLC, constant online maintenance, and ship games 6-8 months later than the versions on the other systems you aren't going to sell said games at a solid clip.



Agree. And this is a HUGE problem going forward, because now we are in a Chicken or the egg situation here: Wii U owners aren't going to buy most first party games because they are often broken, lack features, and are late. And the ones that do make it on time are often just not making use of the system. 3rd Party developers aren't going to invest if people aren't going to buy.

Nintendo's relationship to 3rd Party companies right now is best highlighted with Ubisoft and both the Rayman Legends and Watchdog fiascos. Just awful on all accounts.
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