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Message
re: Calling Resident Oenophiles......
Posted on 10/2/15 at 10:49 am to Artie Rome
Posted on 10/2/15 at 10:49 am to Artie Rome
And that is why the master sommelier exam is the hardest exam in the world according to Forbes. It is a gift that is applicable to your mentors, customers are a very different approach.
1
Posted on 10/2/15 at 10:54 am to lilwineman
quote:
Bordeaux: left bank red (can) right bank red (merlot)
Burgundy...you have correct, however there are other grapes grown there ie Sauv blanc in St Bris
Loire: much more in depth: at the coast is muscadet (melon de bourgogne)...then you have savennieres and quarts de chaume/bonnezeaux (Chenin blanc)...chinon, bourgeuil, and saumur (cab franc)...then Sancerre and pouilly fume (Sauv blanc...Sancerre rouge is Pinot noir)
Rhone; south (red Grenache dominant with Syrah and Mourvèdre white: Grenache blanc, Marsanne, roussanne) north (red is Syrah white is Viognier in condrieu and hermitage blanc would be Marsanne and roussanne)
Champagne is Pinot noir, Chardonnay, and Pinot meunier
Alsace does mostly whites: Pinot Gris, Muscat, Pinot blanc, Riesling, and Gewürztraminer
Yeah I've read a lot of that.
This is why French wine is absolutely ridiculous to regular people.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 10:57 am to lilwineman
quote:
Bordeaux: left bank red (can) right bank red (merlot)
Burgundy...you have correct, however there are other grapes grown there ie Sauv blanc in St Bris
Loire: much more in depth: at the coast is muscadet (melon de bourgogne)...then you have savennieres and quarts de chaume/bonnezeaux (Chenin blanc)...chinon, bourgeuil, and saumur (cab franc)...then Sancerre and pouilly fume (Sauv blanc...Sancerre rouge is Pinot noir)
Rhone; south (red Grenache dominant with Syrah and Mourvèdre white: Grenache blanc, Marsanne, roussanne) north (red is Syrah white is Viognier in condrieu and hermitage blanc would be Marsanne and roussanne)
Champagne is Pinot noir, Chardonnay, and Pinot meunier
Alsace does mostly whites: Pinot Gris, Muscat, Pinot blanc, Riesling, and Gewürztraminer
As one would expect from a certified Somm you are very knowledgeable indeed. If I may ask what pulled you out of LA? Also, what certification body did you test through?
Self admittedly I really believed much of the hype of someone having the ability to pare all the way down to a specific region of origin. However, the more I educate myself I can definitely see it to be very possible if you know what you are looking for. I find it fascinating how every minute detail can affect the final product when consumed.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:04 am to lilwineman
Sounds a bit pretentious.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:21 am to lilwineman
quote:
lilwineman
I know very little about wine but my fiance really enjoys it.
We have been drinking Beringer Knights Valley Cabernet 2012 lately which to me seems very good for a <$20 bottle. Can you suggest any others?
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 11:25 am
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:25 am to UnTamedTiger
I had a magnum of 2005 Swanson Oakville Merlot with a roasted guinea hen and roasted vegetables last night. That was one big funky, delicious bottle of wine that was very ready to drink and all enjoyed it. I have two left and they will be opened this holiday season. It's time. Will do a bone in leg of lamb with one.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:30 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Just tell me the varietal, damnit.
Anglo saxon wines and consumers (especially US Americans) are funny in this respect.
Just tell me the Denomination of Origin, damnit. Then, let´s talk about the grape.
The terrain and climate play a GREAT part in what a wine is or isn´t.
ETA Also, the mere mention of a DO will with great frequency, denote a varietal (as eons of wine making have perfected what is ideal in a specific area).
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 11:39 am
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:36 am to Dandy Lion
quote:
Anglo saxon wines and consumers (especially US Americans) are funny in this respect.
Just tell me the Denomination of Origin, damnit. Then, let´s talk about the grape.
The terrain and climate play a GREAT part in what a wine is or isn´t.
That might be true, but people can't relate to that. They can't relate to every region in the world and know what they are getting.
An average person isn't a sommelier.
They know what Pinot or Chardonnay means so they get it. And while the region will make a great difference in what that varietal tastes like, most people aren't sophisticated enough to really tell a huge difference or care.
Its not going to change because the French are fiercely protective of the Regional differences. I'm not calling for a change at all. That would be beyond arrogant.
All I'm saying is, its pretty frustrating to someone like me that enjoys wine but doesn't have the time to really learn the ridiculous complexity of french wine regions.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:41 am to UnTamedTiger
Certified through both the society of wine educators and court of master sommeliers. Job opportunities for sommeliers in LA are not as diverse, the French and domestic dominance of lists is overwhelming at times. The market in Houston offers so much more educational opportunities honestly and a bit more money....the Greek wines here are amazing, the size of the market is huge.
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:42 am to lilwineman
I've been lurking this board for a long time and just wanted to say that you are one of my favorite posters here; you don't post enough. I try to read everything you ever write.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:49 am to Fun Bunch
To the OP: "Wine for Dummies" is a great intro book, believe it or not.
The key thing about wine is this: everyone who drinks even a little bit of wine wants to act like they know as much as lilwineman; they don't. Unless they're a sommelier, they don't know all about all wines. They may, however, know a little about some wines (like me, for example).
So, know how to identify someone who might know a little something? If they straight up say "I'm only really familiar with wines from ________." If they don't do this and instead act like they know as much as a sommelier, discard everything they say. They're hacks.
Beaujolais Nouveau is shite, but it gives you a sneak preview of that year. Beaujolais typically should be drunk young, but a couple of days is a bit too early. They're more than fine after a year though. They're an easy and accessible wine.
Just spent about a week there in September, actually. Fantastic place for a casual wine lover. I'm fairly sure that only lilwineman will understand my name at first glance
The key thing about wine is this: everyone who drinks even a little bit of wine wants to act like they know as much as lilwineman; they don't. Unless they're a sommelier, they don't know all about all wines. They may, however, know a little about some wines (like me, for example).
So, know how to identify someone who might know a little something? If they straight up say "I'm only really familiar with wines from ________." If they don't do this and instead act like they know as much as a sommelier, discard everything they say. They're hacks.
quote:
I was woefully ignorant on French wine and found it to be confusing as frick. Just tell me the varietal, damnit.
But, I'm trying to learn so that I'm not a complete idiot when I go to Paris at the end of November.
Really dumbed down version:
Burgundy = (red) Pinot Noir, (white) Chardonnay
Loire Valley (white) = Sauvignon Blanc
Right? Because that's mostly what we drink so that's kind of what I need to know.
I'm going to be in there the week after Beaujolais Nouveau...any of that worth drinking the following week or is it all shite?
Beaujolais Nouveau is shite, but it gives you a sneak preview of that year. Beaujolais typically should be drunk young, but a couple of days is a bit too early
. They're more than fine after a year though. They're an easy and accessible wine. Just spent about a week there in September, actually. Fantastic place for a casual wine lover. I'm fairly sure that only lilwineman will understand my name at first glance
Posted on 10/2/15 at 11:58 am to Julienas
quote:
Beaujolais Nouveau is shite,
preach
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:09 pm to Artie Rome
quote:
I go back and forth between it being an art and utter bullshite.
It's not other bullshite; it's just that most people are bullshitting.
Every couple of years there is some popular article that "debunks" the idea that there's a difference in wine quality or something. If you want to talk about bullshite, then you should start with those articles. You don't even have to be a sommelier to tell the difference between a Bota Box and a white burgundy.
Now it is true - universally - that prior expectations, surroundings, etc... can affect "taste," believe it or not. It's probably why one of the best meals you've ever had was unexpected and during a wonderful time of your life and it wouldn't taste the same if you went back and had it right now.
Unfortunately the wine world has a fair amount of d-bags. But I've found that the vast majority of people who love wine are not snobby at all. Enjoying and pursuing an interest doesn't make someone a snob.
My SO and I love tasting - including the whole smelling thing - and we try to pick out and discern tastes. We're not showing off, we're trying to get better and appreciate the wine. It's an interest/hobby, that's all.
One final note - I wouldn't recommend any beginner start out with really nice wines. You're not going to be able to tell the difference between a 10 year old Burgundy and 2 buck chuck. The key is what lilwineman said: drink. Often and a lot. I'm talking about the vast majority of days. And pay attention to what you're drinking. Red wine is just going to taste like "red wine" at first. But slowly your palate will develop and you'll find yourself liking certain aspects and gravitating toward wines that feature those.
This would be my rough plan for you:
1st month: just drink a bunch of wine that you buy from the store. Try to drink a couple of glasses every day. Don't worry too much about the wine or even what you like. Don't develop preferences. Just enjoy the wine and drink.
2nd month: learn about the broad (and not always true) differences between New World (U.S.) wine and Old World (Portugal/Spain/Italian/French) wine. New World tends to be juicier, fruitier. Old World tends to be more earthy. I've heard it said perfectly: New World wines showcase the grape; Old World wines showcase the soil. There's no better or worse (you don't even have to decide if you like one more - you can like both); they're just two different broad styles. So alternate every day for a month. American wine. European wine. Every day (notice how I'm leaving out certain areas - don't worry about wines from Australia, South Africa, South America, etc... for now. Absolutely nothing wrong with them; they can just be more of a hybrid between the two distinct styles, and we're still trying to show you the difference)
3rd MonthBy now, you probably have some idea of the kinds of flavors you like. Do not say you don't like wine from a particular area or a particular grape. There's no way that you (or even I) know enough to make that determination yet. Besides, we should like all wine. However, you will undoubtedly begin having a preference. Start to understand why you prefer wine from, say, Oregon. Or Loire Valley. Or Sicily. Don't just say you happened to like those more; pinpoint why.
NOW is where you can start talking to wine shop people. Tell them what you like and why. Let them suggest to you wines that you may enjoy.
And basically just continue doing this for the rest of your life. Your preferences will probably change; let them. When I was younger I preferred really jammy petit syrahs from California. I kept going down that road and one day I woke up and realized that I haven't had a New World wine in months and have instead been enjoying earthier and more leathery Spanish wines.
Currently I prefer French wines - light, complex, elegant. I'd be happy with a red Chinon every day for the rest of my life.
Finally - the harsh stratification from red/rose/white is a uniquely American concept. One isn't better than the other. They take roses in Europe just as seriously as reds. Ditto for whites. And be open to the fact that there may not be a such thing as a "better" wine; one wine might be better with one meal/occasion/season than another. But don't let anyone dictate that to you - have the one you feel like at the time.
For instance, I enjoy a nice red burgundy with my ribeyes. I find bordeauxs/cabs a bit too much - I often prefer to drink those alone to appreciate their complexity. But that's just me - you might be different.
And having 2 glasses of rose with lunch everyday isn't a bad idea either
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:15 pm to Julienas
I appreciate your input, but as some of my friends say, I've spilled more than you've drank.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:19 pm to Artie Rome
Sometimes I think I've spilled more than I've drank
Posted on 10/2/15 at 12:39 pm to Julienas
quote:
It's not other bullshite; it's just that most people are bullshitting.
Every couple of years there is some popular article that "debunks" the idea that there's a difference in wine quality or something. If you want to talk about bullshite, then you should start with those articles. You don't even have to be a sommelier to tell the difference between a Bota Box and a white burgundy.
Now it is true - universally - that prior expectations, surroundings, etc... can affect "taste," believe it or not. It's probably why one of the best meals you've ever had was unexpected and during a wonderful time of your life and it wouldn't taste the same if you went back and had it right now.
Unfortunately the wine world has a fair amount of d-bags. But I've found that the vast majority of people who love wine are not snobby at all. Enjoying and pursuing an interest doesn't make someone a snob.
My SO and I love tasting - including the whole smelling thing - and we try to pick out and discern tastes. We're not showing off, we're trying to get better and appreciate the wine. It's an interest/hobby, that's all.
One final note - I wouldn't recommend any beginner start out with really nice wines. You're not going to be able to tell the difference between a 10 year old Burgundy and 2 buck chuck. The key is what lilwineman said: drink. Often and a lot. I'm talking about the vast majority of days. And pay attention to what you're drinking. Red wine is just going to taste like "red wine" at first. But slowly your palate will develop and you'll find yourself liking certain aspects and gravitating toward wines that feature those.
This would be my rough plan for you:
1st month: just drink a bunch of wine that you buy from the store. Try to drink a couple of glasses every day. Don't worry too much about the wine or even what you like. Don't develop preferences. Just enjoy the wine and drink.
2nd month: learn about the broad (and not always true) differences between New World (U.S.) wine and Old World (Portugal/Spain/Italian/French) wine. New World tends to be juicier, fruitier. Old World tends to be more earthy. I've heard it said perfectly: New World wines showcase the grape; Old World wines showcase the soil. There's no better or worse (you don't even have to decide if you like one more - you can like both); they're just two different broad styles. So alternate every day for a month. American wine. European wine. Every day (notice how I'm leaving out certain areas - don't worry about wines from Australia, South Africa, South America, etc... for now. Absolutely nothing wrong with them; they can just be more of a hybrid between the two distinct styles, and we're still trying to show you the difference)
3rd MonthBy now, you probably have some idea of the kinds of flavors you like. Do not say you don't like wine from a particular area or a particular grape. There's no way that you (or even I) know enough to make that determination yet. Besides, we should like all wine. However, you will undoubtedly begin having a preference. Start to understand why you prefer wine from, say, Oregon. Or Loire Valley. Or Sicily. Don't just say you happened to like those more; pinpoint why.
NOW is where you can start talking to wine shop people. Tell them what you like and why. Let them suggest to you wines that you may enjoy.
And basically just continue doing this for the rest of your life. Your preferences will probably change; let them. When I was younger I preferred really jammy petit syrahs from California. I kept going down that road and one day I woke up and realized that I haven't had a New World wine in months and have instead been enjoying earthier and more leathery Spanish wines.
Currently I prefer French wines - light, complex, elegant. I'd be happy with a red Chinon every day for the rest of my life.
Finally - the harsh stratification from red/rose/white is a uniquely American concept. One isn't better than the other. They take roses in Europe just as seriously as reds. Ditto for whites. And be open to the fact that there may not be a such thing as a "better" wine; one wine might be better with one meal/occasion/season than another. But don't let anyone dictate that to you - have the one you feel like at the time.
For instance, I enjoy a nice red burgundy with my ribeyes. I find bordeauxs/cabs a bit too much - I often prefer to drink those alone to appreciate their complexity. But that's just me - you might be different.
And having 2 glasses of rose with lunch everyday isn't a bad idea either
6 billionty upvotes. Bravo!
Posted on 10/2/15 at 2:18 pm to Julienas
Great post. While although this thread isn't taking the direction I thought it would I am very much enjoying the conversation and debate. I intend from time to time chime in and give feedback on what I have recently have opened. I encourage the few folks who have already posted to do the same. I am still very much in the infant stages of developing my "I could drink every day" preferences but enjoy the process.
quote:Julenas, do you listen to WFNP? This is something Elizabeth S says very frequently.
2 buck chuck
Posted on 10/2/15 at 6:35 pm to UnTamedTiger
Wines opened and tasted today:
Sohm Kracher Single Vineyard Gruner Veltliner-from the central part of Austria, in the Niederosterreich, this wine is a collaboration between Aldo Sohm (top sommelier in the world a few years ago) and the kracher family of the famous Austrian dessert wines. Limestone soils, a mineral focused intensity, strong acid, and aromatics of gruner. Reminds me of Chablis, but with a tightness that is truly gruner. Retails for around $70
Gaja Ca'marcanda Vistamare 2013- a blend of Vermentino and Viognier from the Bolgheri estate in Tuscany. The Viognier is more restrained that its traditional domestic and French counterparts, adding subtle hints of Rose and apricot with the citrus aromatics if vermentino permeate. Weight is given from the Viognier, adding a beautiful roundness to the crisp acidity.
Chimney rock Elevage Blanc 2013- 70% Sauvignon Gris and 30% Sauvignon blanc with partial fermentation in new French oak, used French oak, and stainless steel. An attempt to emulate the great white Bordeaux wines of graves without the use of semillion. The oak lightly adds a roundness and hints of vanilla, with the fruit complexities straying away from the traditional grapefruit and lemon and more towards white peach, melon, and mango. Great alternative for a Chardonnay drinker that wants an oak tons with more acid and restraint
Chapoutier Pinteivera Duoro Portugal 2011- 100% touriga nacional from a single vineyard, right at 1000 cases made. Sees 100% new oak, yet not present on the palate. Aromas of fig, strawberry jam, and cherry liqueur. Reminds me of a beautiful southern Rhone (as he is from there) in the way the wine comes softly across the palate with those ripe fruits.
Chapoutier Banyuls 2013- a vin doux naturel (VdN) in the southwest of France made from unfermented Grenache grape must (90%) and distilled grape spirits (10%) resulting in a wine with port like sweetness but a reserved amount of alcohol on the most (16% instead of 19.5%). Sweet dark cherry, blackberry liqueur, ripe plum, and a smoky tone on the finish. A delicious treat and alternative for an after dinner drink.
Cheers!
Sohm Kracher Single Vineyard Gruner Veltliner-from the central part of Austria, in the Niederosterreich, this wine is a collaboration between Aldo Sohm (top sommelier in the world a few years ago) and the kracher family of the famous Austrian dessert wines. Limestone soils, a mineral focused intensity, strong acid, and aromatics of gruner. Reminds me of Chablis, but with a tightness that is truly gruner. Retails for around $70
Gaja Ca'marcanda Vistamare 2013- a blend of Vermentino and Viognier from the Bolgheri estate in Tuscany. The Viognier is more restrained that its traditional domestic and French counterparts, adding subtle hints of Rose and apricot with the citrus aromatics if vermentino permeate. Weight is given from the Viognier, adding a beautiful roundness to the crisp acidity.
Chimney rock Elevage Blanc 2013- 70% Sauvignon Gris and 30% Sauvignon blanc with partial fermentation in new French oak, used French oak, and stainless steel. An attempt to emulate the great white Bordeaux wines of graves without the use of semillion. The oak lightly adds a roundness and hints of vanilla, with the fruit complexities straying away from the traditional grapefruit and lemon and more towards white peach, melon, and mango. Great alternative for a Chardonnay drinker that wants an oak tons with more acid and restraint
Chapoutier Pinteivera Duoro Portugal 2011- 100% touriga nacional from a single vineyard, right at 1000 cases made. Sees 100% new oak, yet not present on the palate. Aromas of fig, strawberry jam, and cherry liqueur. Reminds me of a beautiful southern Rhone (as he is from there) in the way the wine comes softly across the palate with those ripe fruits.
Chapoutier Banyuls 2013- a vin doux naturel (VdN) in the southwest of France made from unfermented Grenache grape must (90%) and distilled grape spirits (10%) resulting in a wine with port like sweetness but a reserved amount of alcohol on the most (16% instead of 19.5%). Sweet dark cherry, blackberry liqueur, ripe plum, and a smoky tone on the finish. A delicious treat and alternative for an after dinner drink.
Cheers!
Posted on 10/2/15 at 6:44 pm to Rouge
quote:
I know way too little about
You should start most of your posts like this
Posted on 10/2/15 at 7:08 pm to Lithium
I'm drinking a 2007 David Arthur Elevation while enjoying this great evening at a high school football game
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