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Posted on 6/26/21 at 8:19 pm to brokelikeajoke
Orlando Sentinel
quote:
A team of scientists and engineers from an obscure federal agency that investigated the fall of the Twin Towers after 9/11 arrived Friday at the site of the partially collapsed residential tower in Surfside. Their goal: to decide whether to launch a full investigation into the catastrophe, and then to begin the painstaking process of determining what went wrong.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a little-known sub-agency of the Department of Commerce, investigates disasters that result in — or had the potential to result in — “substantial loss of life,” according to spokeswoman Jennifer Huergo. It does so with an eye toward recommending changes to building codes, standards and practices that will ensure that similar disasters never happen again.
quote:
The agency’s approach is modeled after that of the National Transportation Safety Board, which investigates transportation-related accidents — such as the collapse of the pedestrian bridge at Florida International University in 2018 that resulted in six deaths.
Another federal agency that investigated the FIU bridge collapse — the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, or OSHA, which focuses on workplace issues — was also in Surfside Friday gathering information on the collapse and deciding whether it qualifies as an OSHA case.
The investigation process can take years to complete.
“We’ll do it as long as it takes,” said Huergo, noting that 200 people were involved in the NIST investigation of the World Trade Center attacks. “It’s very early days.”
Posted on 6/26/21 at 9:01 pm to LSU82BILL
quote:Between this and what seems like possible critical design flaws, I’m curious to see where the blame shakes out in the end and if there will be criminal charges (jail time?).
You can see why unit owners and associations alike turn a blind eye to these problems.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 9:06 pm to When in Rome
Criminal charges?
Jesus Christ I’ve heard it all
Jesus Christ I’ve heard it all
Posted on 6/26/21 at 9:24 pm to djangochained
If extreme negligence lead to the collapse of a residential building, killing 150+ occupants, wouldn’t you think that something like a manslaughter charge for those found responsible wouldn’t be off of the table? It’s not unprecedented, based on a quick Google search.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 9:37 pm to When in Rome
Beerandt's excellent explanation with photos lead me to search for where a parking garage didn't pancake.
That picture appears in this article and says it was a parking garage in Great Britain and gives the weight that only collapsed one deck on to the next lower. BUT that's where it stopped. The phrase punching shear failure is used.
That picture appears in this article and says it was a parking garage in Great Britain and gives the weight that only collapsed one deck on to the next lower. BUT that's where it stopped. The phrase punching shear failure is used.
This post was edited on 6/26/21 at 9:38 pm
Posted on 6/26/21 at 10:14 pm to real turf fan
I don’t understand how they’ve still only found 5 bodies. It’s been 4 days. I know it’s a pile of rubble and unstable, but only 5 bodies with 150 missing? That’s seems so very strange to me. It’s a horrible situation and that would be a terrible way to go. It would be a terrible scene to work on recovery of the remains. I don’t know how people do that job.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 10:38 pm to supadave3
Concrete is about 150# per cuft.
If average condo is 1200 sqft, thats 180,000 pounds squishing each unit below (floors looked to be +/- 12 inches) x number of floors above. The math is ugly.
Unfortunately there wont be much to find, it will be a dna process.
If average condo is 1200 sqft, thats 180,000 pounds squishing each unit below (floors looked to be +/- 12 inches) x number of floors above. The math is ugly.
Unfortunately there wont be much to find, it will be a dna process.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:01 pm to brokelikeajoke
There's also a report that the center of the building, down deep, is on fire. That adds additional layers of danger and makes any use of heat sensing meaningless
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:15 pm to real turf fan
quote:
There's also a report that the center of the building, down deep, is on fire. That adds additional layers of danger and makes any use of heat sensing meaningless
I saw this on the news today. This, plus the weight of the concrete makes for a very ugly scene. I hate my job a little less thinking about the people working that scene right now.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:20 pm to When in Rome
quote:
A nearly identical companion property — Champlain Towers North — was built the same year, a few hundred yards up the beach. It was not immediately clear whether any of the issues raised by the engineer in the south project had also been found in the other buildings.
Surfside’s mayor, Charles W. Burkett, said on Friday that he was worried about the stability of the north building but did not feel “philosophically comfortable” ordering people to evacuate.
“I can’t tell you, I can’t assure you, that the building is safe,” he said at a town commission meeting.
I’d get the hell out
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:27 pm to supadave3
I was also wondering why the news media is not covering this more intensely and now it is quite clear. What a huge tragedy.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:29 pm to When in Rome
Most died instantly for sure. Scary as frick
Posted on 6/27/21 at 12:04 am to Sal Minio
quote:
I was also wondering why the news media is not covering this more intensely and now it is quite clear. What a huge tragedy.
I saw a couple of articles trying to tie this to "climate change." My hunch is that someone tapped the hipster douchebags responsible for these articles on the shoulder and told them how tasteless all that was, and they dropped the story.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 1:09 am to djangochained
quote:
Criminal charges?
Jesus Christ I’ve heard it all
Right. Because these things just happen all the time without anything wrong?
Posted on 6/27/21 at 5:53 am to Penrod
quote:
The guy made a valid point. Buying insurance for what sounds like 5 or 6 condos, including the negotiations every couple of years, would give someone a level of knowledge short of expertise but well above normal. It is not like buying one $50,000 car; it is like buying a small fleet of cars.
Just because you bought a small fleet of cars, you still don’t know how the engine works. You made my point with this example.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 6:34 am to jscrims
quote:No, but you probably know how fleet insurance and maintenance works.
Just because you bought a small fleet of cars, you still don’t know how the engine works. You made my point with this example.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 7:07 am to supadave3
It’s a delicate situation in the first few days. You won’t recover victims until you bring in the heavy equipment. IF there are any survivors, you risk their lives by dismantling the debris with heavy equipment.
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 7:10 am
Posted on 6/27/21 at 11:12 am to LSU82BILL
quote:
ABC 33/40 News
@abc3340
JUST IN: SURFSIDE, Fla. (@AP) -- Miami-Dade Mayor says death toll from building collapse has risen to nine.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 12:20 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
NPR
quote:
Just one month after an engineering report warned of "major structural damage" that required immediate repair, a Surfside, Fla. official assured residents of Chaplain Towers South that their building was sound.
NPR has obtained minutes of a Nov. 2018 meeting that shows a Surfside town inspector met with residents of the building, and assured them the building was "in very good shape." That directly conflicts with an engineering report from five weeks earlier, which warned that failed waterproofing in a concrete structural slab needed to be replaced "in the near future."
The cause of the building collapse remains unknown, but according to the report, the structural slab was deteriorating because it was flat instead of sloped. That meant the water didn't drain off the concrete's waterproofing quickly, but rather pooled there until it evaporated.
Failure to complete the "extremely expensive" repairs, the nine-page report from Morabito Consultants cautioned, would "cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially."
quote:Not good.
The engineering report was dated Oct. 8, 2018. At a Nov. 15 board meeting of the Champlain Tower South Condominium Association, a building official from the town of Surfside, Ross Prieto, appeared to discuss that report. "Structural engineer report was reviewed by Mr. Prieto," the meeting minutes say. "It appears the building is in very good shape."
According to town officials, Prieto is no longer employed by Surfside. NPR attempted repeatedly to reach him, but those efforts were unsuccessful.
The minutes from the meeting appear to conflict with comments made by the current mayor of Surfside, Charles Burkett, who said Saturday that the report was likely not read at the time. Burkett was not mayor in 2018, but told reporters the town did in fact have the report on file.
Miami-Dade County mayor Daniella Levine Cava also told reporters Saturday that officials "knew nothing" about the report.
Surfside officials have not responded to multiple requests for comment.
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