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re: Trending video about Confederate Romanticism in the South
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:08 am to Napoleon
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:08 am to Napoleon
quote:
So you tell him he is wrong for saying they were sold by their enemies then
I never said that? I was simply imparting some facts. I think you are confusing me with whoever he was arguing that with.
How about, you address the post i directed to you? Hell, it doesn't even contradict you, all it does is show the rational way one can talk about slavery and the civil war. Don't understand why you keep dodging it.
This post was edited on 10/26/17 at 9:09 am
2
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:09 am to 25smeckles
Why they fought doesn't matter, what the fight they were fighting represents does.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:09 am to Napoleon
quote:
That's all I can say????
I literally had ten fricking posts between that posts and the last time you responded.
None of your posts were A) intelligent B) not-emotional or C) had anything to do with my post. I'm not going to reply to you trying to divert the debate.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:10 am to Napoleon
quote:
Napoleon
Here genius, in case you are forgetting which post i'm referring to.
quote:
Congratulations??? I'm not saying slavery was rational, i'm saying it is possible to talk rationally about slavery. Remove emotions and the "right/wrong" factor for a second. What was slavery? It was a cheap means of production for Southern plantation owners, and a cheap means of acquiring a product for profit for Southern and Northern businesses. In the end, it was business. Not saying it was good business, but at it's simplest form, it was business where all parties involved benefitted, except the poor slaves, themselves. Within that business model, there were multiple parties involved... Where did they get the slaves? Who sold them? Who bought them? Who utilized them? Who benefited from their work? The point being, with these questions, there are a multitude of guilty parties, yet the finger only gets pointed at the slave owners. Which is correct, but the other complicit parties are culpable as well and should be called out too.
And as i stated earlier, in those times, your state was your country. State pride was above country pride. So when another country (state) told the southern states, you can no longer do something, then not only are the slave owners and profiteers angered by this, but those with no skin in the game are also put off by a foreigner telling their fellow citizens what they can and can't do. So yes, the Civil War was fought over slavery, but it also was fought over states rights. Both can be correct without being offended.
Now other questions are brought up that should be rightfully discussed such as, why did it take 2 years into the civil war before the emancipation proclamation was signed? That is indeed, a valid point, that if Slavery was such a big issue, then why didn't the proclamation be presented before the war? Well, one of the answers, is politics. Lincoln won a very tight race. And as i stated earlier, Northern business owners benefited form the proliferation of slavery. It is arguable, that if it was known that Lincoln was going to sign the EP earlier during his campaign, he wouldn't have been elected in the first place.
I have work to do, so my replies will be more sparse, but this is what i'm talking about, about having a conversation without getting emotionally invested in one side or another.
This post was edited on 10/26/17 at 9:11 am
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:11 am to Napoleon
quote:
Like drugs, in the end the buyers are to blame.
Oh yeah because addiction is wrong and profiteering is moral.
Get out of here with that backward arse logic.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:11 am to BugAC
Hey you spelled it right.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:12 am to BugAC
quote:
Oh i agree. However, size of Africa isn't relative to those facts. Warring tribes were, for the most part, neighboring tribes.
Doesn't change that they were on different teams and didn't make other tribes' people "one of their own"
Pretty clear most people don't feel like Mexico/Mexicans are "one of their own" despite being the neighboring country
quote:
Agreed. Also stating that Southerners who exhibit any southern pride are racists is equally stupid.
I just never understood why Southern pride is always tied to the Confederacy. There is more to the South and Southern culture than confederacy 150 years ago
The super extreme version of this would be like German pride only using WWII regalia. Ya it is their "heritage" too
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:13 am to Collegedropout
Why?
Because I can look back and say the Confederate cause was wrong??
Because I can look back and say the Confederate cause was wrong??
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:13 am to BugAC
quote:
Oh i agree. However, size of Africa isn't relative to those facts. Warring tribes were, for the most part, neighboring tribes.
Agreed.
Then we're on the same page there.
quote:
Also stating that Southerners who exhibit any southern pride are racists is equally stupid.
Hold up. That has nothing to do with the "warring tribes" discussion. Random attempt at a end of post stinger, but it falls flat because:
1.) I never stated anything of the kind
2.) Southern pride =/= pride in the confederacy or its cause
3.) Pride in the South isn't racist. Pride is the despicable cause of the confederacy is anti-American, by definition, which is an affront to Americans of all races
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:15 am to BugAC
quote:
Also stating that Southerners who exhibit any southern pride are racists is equally stupid
Yet earlier in the thread you said people who were anti southern pride are also anti American pride.
By your own reasoning and logic, would that not be "equally stupid".
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:15 am to BugAC
quote:
I was simply imparting some facts.
You should have responded to the other guy, then. Made no sense to respond to me.
This post was edited on 10/26/17 at 9:22 am
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:15 am to Napoleon
Oh my gawd
Who....the hell...cares???
Who....the hell...cares???
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:16 am to BugAC
I've been debating on here.
I quoted the actual secession quotes. I think points have been made.
I quoted the actual secession quotes. I think points have been made.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:17 am to Napoleon
quote:
When LucasP is serous he makes good points. L o l
I came in here to say the same thing. i was like "whoah" that's a good discussion.
i won't get used to it.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:18 am to BugAC
I've addressed every post you posted to me. I don't even know which one you are taking about.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:19 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Hold up. That has nothing to do with the "warring tribes" discussion.
I didn't say it did. Just stating that making assumptions on a group of people isn't always correct. I'll admit, probably shouldn't have thrown that little jab in.
quote:
1.) I never stated anything of the kind
I wasn't referring to you.
quote:
2.) Southern pride =/= pride in the confederacy or its cause
Often the 2 are conflated, when it serves their political purpose. But I agree.
quote:
Pride is the despicable cause of the confederacy is anti-American
I wouldn't call it "anti-American". The Civil War is as American as it gets. It's our history. The pride in the confederacy? I have mixed feelings. I hold no allegiance to it, and i personally don't care if you have pride in it. If you are using said pride, to harm others, then yes, that's when i have a problem with it.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:22 am to BugAC
I am not diverting a thing.
I don't even know which of your fifty posts you are talking about.
I don't even know which of your fifty posts you are talking about.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:24 am to bigrob385series
quote:
no shite?everyone knows this...that's why it no longer exist here in the USA.but 150-200 yrs. ago, it was a common practice.another fact that is overlooked is that these slaves weren't bribed or tricked into coming here,they were sold by there own...so where is the africa hate?nah...easier to blame the current day white man for everything in history that went wrong.
Slavery is racial oppression and didn't end 150-200 years ago.
1) After slavery, it was common for white mobs of people bitter about the lost to raid black communities killing everyone in sight. For example, goggle the Colfax massacre that happened in Louisiana.
2) For a very long time after slavery, blacks were prevented from owning property, owning a gun, and the right to education.
3) Blacks after the war were treated like trash. In the case of Elizabeth Lawrence, she was an elderly black woman who was lynched by a white mob for scolding white children who threw rocks at her as she was walking home in 1933. And this happened during my grandfather's lifetime (he's still alive). There were thousands of senseless lynchings after slavery to instill fear in blacks and keep them from being empowered to stand up for equality.
4) The Jim Crow era was terrible too. I can speak all day on the horrors of "separate but equal" lies.
I can go on and on about how slavery didn't end, it just evolved. Even now, there's a concerted effort to marginalize and exploit African-Americans by the Republican Party which is overwhelmingly white and male.
This post was edited on 10/26/17 at 9:29 am
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:24 am to BugAC
Oh, that wall of text, yeah I skipped that. Lol.
I guess I'll read it and get back to you.
For reasons of why we blame the end user, see my brief drug analogy used earlier.
I guess I'll read it and get back to you.
For reasons of why we blame the end user, see my brief drug analogy used earlier.
Posted on 10/26/17 at 9:25 am to truth87
quote:lulz
Even now, there's a concerted effort to marginalize and exploit African-Americans by the Republican Party which is overwhelmingly white and male.
You think political parties care about people
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