Started By
Message

re: Conservative Think Tank: Trump ‘Obstructed Justice’ When He Fired Comey

Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:53 am to
Posted by The Pirate King
Pangu
Member since May 2014
57901 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:53 am to
quote:

A new report from the nation’s leading center-right think tank


Does not equal:

quote:

Conservative Think Tank


Also:

[quote]LINK ]

This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 7:55 am
Posted by tigerinDC09
Washington, DC
Member since Nov 2011
4741 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:53 am to
Here is the case they reference:

quote:

Similarly, in U.S. v. Lustyik, a defendant was found guilty of obstructing justice under Sections 1503 and 1505 where he “used his status as an FBI agent” to try to stop a government investigation into his friend and business partner, Michael Taylor, by, among other things, “attempting to establish Taylor as a confidential source [and] contact[ing] multiple individuals connected with the [] investigation to dissuade them from indicting Taylor.”192

U.S. v. Lustyik is also instructive. There, an FBI agent was found guilty of obstruction of justice under Sections 1503 and 1505 where he “used his status as an FBI agent” to try to “derail” a government investigation.231
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:54 am to
So far I see that AUstar, BBonds, and Centinel are the only ones in this thread trying to offer counterpoints and have a reasonable discussion.

Actually come to think of it that's better than a lot of threads that go against the grain.
Posted by tigerinDC09
Washington, DC
Member since Nov 2011
4741 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:57 am to
BBonds 25, I found a link about your theory:

quote:

The case law on obstruction of FBI investigations is sparse in part because the Bureau can charge crimes that are much easier to prove—§ 1001 for making false statements, for instance—and because key modalities of obstruction of FBI investigation are individually criminalized. It is, for example, a crime to tamper with witnesses, a crime to bribe a law enforcement officer, and a crime to destroy evidence.

So is Trump off the hook on obstruction? Hardly. For one thing, it’s not entirely clear that Higgins is correct. At least some scholars doubt that the 36-year-old district court case, whose reasoning seems counter to a number of circuit court decisions defining “proceeding,” is the best reading of the law.


LINK
Posted by The Pirate King
Pangu
Member since May 2014
57901 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:57 am to
quote:

So far I see that AUstar, BBonds, and Centinel are the only ones in this thread trying to offer counterpoints and have a reasonable discussion.


Because the source (both the poster and article) are laughably biased. What is the point in arguing with someone who is intellectually dishonest at best and a liar at worst?
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
48785 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:59 am to
US attorney manual

The US attorney manual cites United States v Higgins, 511 F. Supp. 453 and United States v Scaratow, 137 F. Supp. 620 when it states:

quote:

However, investigations by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) are not section 1505 proceedings.


Now...in 118 pages, the fine conservative folks at Brookings failed to even address this issue. That the precedent and even the US Attorney Manual States FBI investigations aren't proceeding under the code. Why do you think that is?

Posted by tigerinDC09
Washington, DC
Member since Nov 2011
4741 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:59 am to
quote:

So far I see that AUstar, BBonds, and Centinel are the only ones in this thread trying to offer counterpoints and have a reasonable discussion.


Yeah, BBond's point is vaild and I appreciate him at least debating it on merit
Posted by cajunangelle
Member since Oct 2012
147596 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:59 am to
quote:

I grew up in Louisiana and graduated LSU.

We both live in bubbles. I'm on here to step outside of mine, what do you do to get outside of yours?
I don't live in a bubble I live in reality.

Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:00 am to
quote:

Yet they skipped over the most basic issue. Whether an FBI investigation is a proceeding under the law. There is legal precedent out there hat addresses this. Do you want to guess why it was cited. Their 118 pages of facts are no different than any memorandum in support an advocate would file in any case. Yet you think it is airtight? Know how I know you have zero legal background?
You and I had this discussion a few weeks back and I don't remember being presented with anything conclusively saying that an FBI investigation didn't qualify as a 1505 proceeding. Apparently it's still pretty controversial.

But like a few weeks ago, that doesn't address the fact that there are concurrent congressional and grand jury investigations intimately tied to Trump campaign principals--including one (Flynn) whom Trump specifically tried to have heat taken off.
Posted by Pinecone Repair
Burminham
Member since Nov 2013
7156 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:01 am to
quote:

Brookings


quote:

Conservative


quote:

Center right



Posted by notslim99
City of Bossier City
Member since Feb 2005
4531 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:01 am to
Let me give you some precedents....
Fast and Furious - no prosecution
IRS targeting scandal - no prosecution
Lynch/Clinton tarmac meeting - no prosecution
Clinton Foundation receiving illegal contributions- no prosecution
Hillary Clinton “pay for play” - no prosecution
Benghazi cover up - no prosecution
Hillary email scandal - no prosecution

All of these cases have vastly more substantial evidence, including intent, to prosecute. They won’t and likely never will. The DC swamp is really showing its hand if it goes after Trump in this flimsy premise outlined in your “report,” especially considering all the above.
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:02 am to
quote:

Because the source (both the poster and article) are laughably biased.
What's wrong with biased. Biased doesn't mean wrong. It doesn't mean right, either. It doesn't address the merits of the argument. I'm biased, like you and everyone else, but I can promise you I generally post in good faith unless I'm obviously trolling or having fun.
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
48785 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:03 am to
quote:

BBonds 25, I found a link about your theory:



It's not my theory. It is directs from the US attorney manual which cites two cases as to why it made that determination. You may find scholars who disagree with the interpretation. However, there is at least a question to be argued....but in reality, until Trump...nobody ever questioned he well-established precedent.

Airtight you say?
Posted by tigerinDC09
Washington, DC
Member since Nov 2011
4741 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:03 am to
quote:

Now...in 118 pages, the fine conservative folks at Brookings failed to even address this issue. That the precedent and even the US Attorney Manual States FBI investigations aren't proceeding under the code. Why do you think that is?


Also, is Flynn's investigation ONLY an FBI investigation?

Didn't they have him on FARA? Is that an FBI investigation or a "government investigation" as laid out in the other codes?
Posted by rebeloke
Member since Nov 2012
16171 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:05 am to
Executive power and privilege beoch!
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:05 am to
quote:

Also, is Flynn's investigation ONLY an FBI investigation?
That's a big nope. It's a grand jury investigation as well.
Posted by Homesick Tiger
Greenbrier, AR
Member since Nov 2006
54237 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:05 am to
quote:

that President Donald Trump likely obstructed justice


Well there's that definitive word again being used as proof of something.

Posted by tigerinDC09
Washington, DC
Member since Nov 2011
4741 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:06 am to
quote:

But like a few weeks ago, that doesn't address the fact that there are concurrent congressional and grand jury investigations intimately tied to Trump campaign principals--including one (Flynn) whom Trump specifically tried to have heat taken off.


Navytiger74... Great minds think alike
Posted by AUstar
Member since Dec 2012
17069 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:06 am to
Completely irrelevant. Lustyik is not the POTUS.

Bottom line: The argument is going to boil down to whether the POTUS truly is the head of the executive branch (he is) and whether he is allowed to direct investigations as he sees fit. The constitution doesn't prevent him from doing whatever he wants with the FBI -- and indeed the constitution explicitly makes him the dictator of the executive branch. The FBI wasn't around in the 1780's, but the constitution did make provisions for administrative agencies (which the FBI is) The POTUS is the head honcho of all executive branch agencies.

All of the technical arguments as to whether this or that is or isn't obstruction is irrelevant to the POTUS. He is not Joe Sixpack.
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
53511 posts
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:06 am to
The fact is that you TRIED to present this as a conservative think tank to bolster the argument for the impeachment of Trump.

You started the whole dialogue with a lie.

first pageprev pagePage 5 of 8Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram