re: Jrue and Klay- i'm not a moron. i can recognize the difference between the players w/o #wellactually Klay Thompson is a better shooter

there are 2 problems:

1) Holiday has never played off ball consistently. you're asking him to do something he has not done in 8 years as a pro and god knows how many years as an amatuer

2) you just signed off on $5/126M to a guy whom you now want to take on a role he has never played before. maybe he can adapt (limited sample w/ Cousins last year was not promising, but limited sample is limited sample). he didnt earn that money as an off ball player.

quote:
It's like people have no clue how to value anything outside of shooting.

not really. it's valuing what a guy can do. Holiday is a ball dominant player on offense (and, yes, he's not a particularly good primary creator- i've stumped for him to be the off the bench scorer after his stint there a couple years back).

if you're asking him to switch that up entirely, that just doesnt add up to me w/r/t Holiday's skills on offense. if you're telling me the system will be set up to allow multiple guys to initiate/create, great.

maybe it works great. i hope so. but plugging guys into new roles isnt as easy as we would like to think- see Evans, Tyreke and Gordon, Eric

ETA- again, most of the confusion/debate/disagreement comes back to how we use/interpret positional labels. when we say SG, that can mean a ton of different things.

e.g.- Holiday is a creator who can do some things off ball. Moore is an off ball guy who can do a little bit off the bounce. Rondo is a creator w/ almost nothing to offer off ball.

This post was edited on 7/16/17 at 3:16 pm

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Posted by Number 31

St. Tammany

Member since Jul 2016

4178 posts

Posted on 7/16/17 at 3:24 pm to corndeaux

quote:
there are 2 problems:

1) Holiday has never played off ball consistently. you're asking him to do something he has not done in 8 years as a pro and god knows how many years as an amatuer

He may thrive. Perhaps he hasn't been playing to his greatest strengths because he's a capable enough PG and was better then the other guards around him running the point.

Maybe he'll look confused and turn the ball over.

We won't know how he adapts to the change, if there is in fact a change, until we see it on the court.

With AD and DC he's got to be licking his chops at the opportunity to be a scorer/shooter more than a facilitator. I have to imagine teams will give up the 3 until we show we can beat them with it. With those two on the court, I've got to think there will be some open looks from outside.

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Posted by TigerinATL

Member since Feb 2005

61594 posts

Posted on 7/16/17 at 3:43 pm to corndeaux

quote:
re: Jrue and Klay- i'm not a moron. i can recognize the difference between the players w/o #wellactually Klay Thompson is a better shooter

I wasn't aiming that at you. But when I brought up Jrue filling the Klay role in the past most people knee jerked without even actually thinking about the idea because of the difference in shooting.

quote:
Holiday has never played off ball consistently.

I don't think they want him playing off ball necessarily. Like you said, the money doesn't add up for that role. They keep talking about having someone take pressure off him. The common diagnosis with Holiday is that he's not instinctual and when he has to run the offense he has to think his way through his progressions too much. Maybe it's not an "off ball" role as much as a "when you get the ball you now have 2 options instead of 5 so you can be more decisive."

Jordan Crawford was able to hit the ground running in part because he was so decisive at the point of attack. But he also wasn't trying to figure out which play to run at first. He was just playing basketball, saw a pick and ran a PnR.

This post was edited on 7/16/17 at 3:45 pm

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