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Started By
Message
re: Thomas Gallatin: Obama Doubled Your Healthcare Premium
Posted on 5/26/17 at 4:20 pm to KCT
Posted on 5/26/17 at 4:20 pm to KCT
Most of you are too stupid to understand healthcare financing.
"Who knew it was so complicated?"
Health insurance premiums went up an average of 10% a year in the three years before the Affordable Care Act. In fact, employers have been shifting the costs of premium to their employees for years while increasing deductibles, co-pays and maximum out of pocket expenses.
I always love it when people discuss the ACA premium without discussing subsidies to help offset them for people who qualify. It's also odd to hear folks talk about the huge premiums people pay through ACA. I have news for you. See how insurance premiums through the market place compare to COBRA premiums from your employer. They'll be comparable is assure you.
Also, don't think you don't already pay a premium or a "tax" for uncompensated care for uninsured.
Healthcare financing in this country is a joke and will be until we have single payer.
"Who knew it was so complicated?"
Health insurance premiums went up an average of 10% a year in the three years before the Affordable Care Act. In fact, employers have been shifting the costs of premium to their employees for years while increasing deductibles, co-pays and maximum out of pocket expenses.
I always love it when people discuss the ACA premium without discussing subsidies to help offset them for people who qualify. It's also odd to hear folks talk about the huge premiums people pay through ACA. I have news for you. See how insurance premiums through the market place compare to COBRA premiums from your employer. They'll be comparable is assure you.
Also, don't think you don't already pay a premium or a "tax" for uncompensated care for uninsured.
Healthcare financing in this country is a joke and will be until we have single payer.
2
Posted on 5/26/17 at 4:20 pm to KCT
Mine almost doubled in the first year.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 4:23 pm to the808bass
quote:
Remember the other day when you lied about doctor liability insurance and lower premiums?
No, not at all. I remember posting several links that showed through empirical data and a Supreme Court ruling that caps often do not lead to a meaningful reduction in tort insurance. In fact in Florida, the insurers held onto the savings and turned it into 4300% profit over the time period studied while tort insurance remained sky high.
I do remember you pretty much every time I see you, jumping into threads and saying dumb ignorant shite that you get exposed for.
When called out you quickly try to attack a new angle to draw attention away from your dumb fricking previous posts.
This post was edited on 5/26/17 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 5/26/17 at 4:26 pm to JohnnyU
quote:
Most of you are too stupid to understand healthcare financing.
"Who knew it was so complicated?"
Health insurance premiums went up an average of 10% a year in the three years before the Affordable Care Act. In fact, employers have been shifting the costs of premium to their employees for years while increasing deductibles, co-pays and maximum out of pocket expenses.
I always love it when people discuss the ACA premium without discussing subsidies to help offset them for people who qualify. It's also odd to hear folks talk about the huge premiums people pay through ACA. I have news for you. See how insurance premiums through the market place compare to COBRA premiums from your employer. They'll be comparable is assure you.
Also, don't think you don't already pay a premium or a "tax" for uncompensated care for uninsured.
Healthcare financing in this country is a joke and will be until we have single payer.
I think there are other ways besides just single-payer to make the system better, but the idea often peddled around here that just repealing the ACA is some sort of answer and will magically get us to this fairyland that never actually existed is just crazy.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 5:02 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
The overwhelming majority of people that will lose coverage will not be because they just chose not to carry insurance they can otherwise afford
So it's better to hyperinflate the price of health insurance making it completely unaffordable, then force people to buy it or taxpeyers to subsidize it, than it is to bring prices down so people can freely choose to buy a more affordable product?
You might be onto something here!
Posted on 5/26/17 at 5:05 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
I like how he doesn't mention a single shred of detail about how the AHCA improves things.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 5:10 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
So it's better to hyperinflate the price of health insurance making it completely unaffordable, then force people to buy it or taxpeyers to subsidize it, than it is to bring prices down so people can freely choose to buy a more affordable product?
You might be onto something here
How is this magical drop in prices achieved for everyone?
Posted on 5/26/17 at 5:29 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
How is this magical drop in prices achieved for everyone?
Don't be stupid... unless you can't help it.
When providers have a captive audience (individual mandate), and there is a run on demand (cost shifting, subsidized care, and pre-existing coverage) coupled with expensive requirements and beaurocracy (coverage requirements) you can expect prices to rise. Ironically, there are laws against price gouging.
Who knows I'd ahca will be the fix that makes everyone happy- I doubt any plan can do that. But if all it does is restore some measure of natural market forces to the healthcare system, prices will at minimum, stabilize. If all we ever did was go back to the old system, costs would stabilize.
If I'm reading you right, you are the only liberal here except for Bamasjw that still supports the aca.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 5:39 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
When providers have a captive audience (individual mandate), and there is a run on demand (cost shifting, subsidized care, and pre-existing coverage) coupled with expensive requirements and beaurocracy (coverage requirements) you can expect prices to rise. Ironically, there are laws against price gouging.
Who knows I'd ahca will be the fix that makes everyone happy- I doubt any plan can do that. But if all it does is restore some measure of natural market forces to the healthcare system, prices will at minimum, stabilize. If all we ever did was go back to the old system, costs would stabilize.
If I'm reading you right, you are the only liberal here except for Bamasjw that still supports the aca.
Costs have not been stable in decades. You are perpetuating the same myth as other people. This is why your arguments about just repealing the ACA to create a stable and more cost efficient market fall apart.
quote:
Since 1999, health insurance premiums for families rose 131%, the report found, far more than the general rate of inflation, which increased 28% over the same period. Overall, health care in the United States is expected to cost $2.6 trillion this year, or 17% of the nation’s economy, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office.
quote:
The annual survey of more than 2,000 companies also found that 40% of small-business employees enrolled in individual health plans pay annual deductibles of $1,000 or more. That’s almost twice the number who paid that much in 2007.
For context both pieces were written in 2009. Before the ACA passed.
This is an ongoing trend. It exists for a complex set of reasons and just allowing insurers to charge sick, old people, and woman more money is not going to reverse the trend. It can, and will as the CBO points out, shift the winners and losers, but the trends are not going away. The inputs that produce the insurance premiums continue to go up and until changes are made that drastically change that, the trend will continue.
This post was edited on 5/26/17 at 5:42 pm
Posted on 5/26/17 at 5:43 pm to KCT
quote:Prototypical Alinsky.
Affordable Care Act
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:00 pm to KCT
Yeah! Patriot post! Wherever the frick that is. Surely a bastion of impartial thinking.
I.e. Purveyor of FAKE NEWS
I.e. Purveyor of FAKE NEWS
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:13 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
The ironic case study in the ACA is that we learned it is much cheaper to spend a dollar to give someone Medicaid then it is to spend a dollar to subsidize their private insurance.
But the private insurance reimburses the doctors enough to provide the level of care that you are demanding.
Medicaid? Not so much.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:27 pm to texashorn
quote:
But the private insurance reimburses the doctors enough to provide the level of care that you are demanding.
Medicaid? Not so much.
Doctors don't have to accept Medicaid.
And I think we would need to establish what the break-even point is where reimbursements eliminate certain types of care from being financially viable. Based on cost comparisons we are a huge outlier on the international stage. We pay more for pretty much every service and drug compared to other countries.
....Back to your point though, you are just illustrating the paradoxical problem I was illustrating. The private market has done a poorer job of negotiating down prices then the public side. Which has led to higher per-person costs.
I.E. A dollar to subsidize someones Medicaid stretches further then a Dollar to subsidize someone's private insurance plan.
If the Republicans really wanted to reduce the number of uninsured they would of swapped that 218 billion lost in savings to fund private market subsidies and other reforms, for Medicaid reimbursements instead. Since it has been able to produce more coverage for fewer dollars. But that would mean Republicans have to admit that the public market currently is doing a better job keeping costs down on a per person and administrative basis. But doing that would be a major blow to their narrative.
This post was edited on 5/26/17 at 6:29 pm
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:31 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Doctors don't have to accept Medicaid.
We get it. You want to use the Army, the police, the IRS... whatever it takes... to steal the labor of another man to provide a highly skilled service to another.
The "why" you think that way, I haven't figured out yet.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:34 pm to texashorn
quote:
We get it. You want to use the Army, the police, the IRS... whatever it takes... to steal the labor of another man to provide a highly skilled service to another.
The "why" you think that way, I haven't figured out yet.
I kinda think it is you that didn't "get it" if that is what you derived from my post.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:37 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
The private market has done a poorer job of negotiating down prices then the public side.
I wonder why. Please don't be so dense.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:50 pm to JohnnyU
quote:Why? Cost is cost. SOMEone is paying, even if you aren't.
I always love it when people discuss the ACA premium without discussing subsidies
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:57 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
go uninsured is due to choice.
im currently uninsured..
by choice.
just doing my part to bring the shite system down.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:59 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Why? Cost is cost. SOMEone is paying, even if you aren't.
It is important context though.
It becomes disingenuous to say everyone on the exchanges had much higher premiums, leaving out how subsidies insulate people from those increases.
But you are certainly right in that the cost does not go away. It gets paid. But how that tab is paid is just being fully clarified.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:04 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
It becomes disingenuous to say everyone on the exchanges had much higher premiums, leaving out how subsidies insulate people from those increases.
wrong. its disingenuous to include the subsidies in the prices. because its a lie. if the price before a subsidy is 100 a month, the price isnt 60 because 40 of it was paid by someone else. the price is still 100. by saying anything but the FULL price is, in itself, willful deception.
but i completely expect someone who defends the steaming pile of shite that is the ACA to be willfully deceitful in their presentation of price by touting the post-subsidy price instead of the TRUE price.
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