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Started By
Message
Pensions may bankrupt Dallas (Reason)
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:21 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:21 am
LINK
quote:
Dallas Mayor Michael S. Rawlings said in November that he believes the city is "walking into the fan blades," in large part because of unsustainable pension promises made to the city's police officers and firefighters. The fund that is supposed to pay for retired cops and firemen is more than $5 billion in the red. Credit rating agency Moody's believes the fund will be out of money within 20 years, and recent retirees have taken notice: Many have started pulling their money out of the system by the millions (an ill-advised provision in the plan allows this), which is hastening the coming default.
Municipal bankruptcies, though rare, are bound to happen from time to time. But they are not supposed to happen in places like Dallas, where the population and the economy are both growing. If poorly designed pension plans are capable of wrecking an otherwise thriving city, it's time to revise our view of what places are exposed to these risks.
quote:
In some ways, the Detroit bankruptcy was a unique event. With the collapse of the domestic auto industry, the city's population eroded at a rate that's practically without equal outside places that were bombed or beset by a natural disaster.
The underlying story in Dallas couldn't be more different. Over the same 60 years that saw Detroit's population diminish by more than a million people, the Texas city's population almost tripled, going from 434,000 in 1950 to nearly 1.2 million at the last census. With more people than ever paying into the system, Dallas should be sitting pretty.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:22 am to SlowFlowPro
Dallas is a big city but this has been happening to metro areas for years, and not just because of pensions, but also salaries. Jackson is losing its tax base but its budget keeps increasing. It's because the city itself is one of the top employers.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:23 am to SlowFlowPro
so what's the next step with cops/firefighters when pensions inevitably are unworkable? the level of applicants is already shite, can it get even worse?
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
It's pretty bad.
I've seen up close how generous first responder pay/benefits were for Dallas proper in the 90s/00s. It's not shocking at all.
I've seen up close how generous first responder pay/benefits were for Dallas proper in the 90s/00s. It's not shocking at all.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:27 am to SlowFlowPro
My mother is about to be leaning heavily on a city pension when she retires. Stuff like this scares the shite out of me.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:27 am to SlowFlowPro
oh my goodness.
that would be a disaster
that would be a disaster
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:27 am to SlowFlowPro
Wish I could remember where I read, but there was a much longer and more in depth article on this I read a month or two ago.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:28 am to SlowFlowPro
How many people that work in the private sector get a pension and full healthcare for their entire family for life after they retire? Maybe 5%, 10% at most. I never have. The only retirement I have is the money that I've invested in my 401K plan and IRA and the small matching % by the companies that I have worked for.
The practice of giving government employees and teachers 80% of pay pensions and healthcare for life is seriously damaging cities and this country financially. It's not sustainable.
The practice of giving government employees and teachers 80% of pay pensions and healthcare for life is seriously damaging cities and this country financially. It's not sustainable.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:29 am to SlowFlowPro
You mean when elected officials promise benefits today and push off costs until later it can go horribly, horribly wrong?
Who would have thunk it?
Who would have thunk it?
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:34 am to SlowFlowPro
This isn't unique to Dallas; it's pretty much every major city anyway bc you have morons negotiating with unions....unions are thieves and the morons negotiating on behalf of the cities have no fricking clue on how to negotiate. They give the unions everything for political endorsements.
How will Dallas survive? The same way everyone else did....have the Fed take over the debt.
This is why most believe the total Fed debt is well above $120T...not $19.5T.
How will Dallas survive? The same way everyone else did....have the Fed take over the debt.
This is why most believe the total Fed debt is well above $120T...not $19.5T.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:43 am to SlowFlowPro
Yea, my dad is facing this in Houston. Just retired from the fire department after 40 years. The government put off any sort of raises (including inflation-adjustments) for many years, instead offering the pie in the sky pension. Turns out the city made crappy investments (what a surprise), and now they're scrambling to cut a deal.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:44 am to SlowFlowPro
I hate to say this but when you depend on others to pay you after you retire, you should be very worried.
Unless that money is in your bank account, it can be taken away.
The old school pension system is dead.
Buddy of mine is an officer here in Florida. His retirement isn't with the state of Florida or the county. It's his account which the county contributes to.
No one can ever touch that money. It's his. He might not have a "monthly income" from the state when he retires, but he'll have control over his money.
Unless that money is in your bank account, it can be taken away.
The old school pension system is dead.
Buddy of mine is an officer here in Florida. His retirement isn't with the state of Florida or the county. It's his account which the county contributes to.
No one can ever touch that money. It's his. He might not have a "monthly income" from the state when he retires, but he'll have control over his money.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:46 am to SlowFlowPro
This is why you dont depend on government for your future
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:48 am to SlowFlowPro
The genesis of this problem began with the Texas Legislature in the 1990s when they authorized the City of Dallas and other municipalities to pay 8 to 9 % interest on contributions. The thinking at the time was that by paying a higher return on investment, cops & firefighters would stay employed longer. Now, after years of bad investments, Dallas is trying to repair a broken ponzi scheme whereby outflow of funds is greater than inflow and many retirees have withdrawn all of their funds as a precaution. One bankruptcy firm recommended to the City that they max out their credit to replenish the fund. I know of one retiree who has just been living off the interest. Who the hell gets an 8 to 9% payback nowdays?
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:51 am to SlowFlowPro
One if the few ways to fix the problem with police/firefighter retirement fund is establish a metropolitan police department and fire department.
This may piss off the people that live in the suburbs, but it will help with a bigger tax base.
This may piss off the people that live in the suburbs, but it will help with a bigger tax base.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:56 am to SlowFlowPro
They were dealing with this in Memphis when I was there. A lot of employees had to take haircuts. It was a painful process but the city is probably ahead of a lot of peers in terms of dealing with this mess.
Defined benefits will sink a lot of municipalities and states in the coming years.
Defined benefits will sink a lot of municipalities and states in the coming years.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 11:17 am to SlowFlowPro
In my opinion one of the main problems is when they employees are allowed to retire. People are living longer now yet in a lot of places the retirement age has stayed the same. If you're a teacher and get a job right out of college, you can retire with full health care and a significant salary at 52 (30 years of employment). That means if you live to be 90 you are now payed for more years not working than when you worked!
Posted on 2/23/17 at 11:33 am to SlowFlowPro
Fake news, small local government is infallible.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 11:34 am to SlowFlowPro
I am glad I fled North from Dallas County. Dallas is a blue county, which translates to not being good with other people's money.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 11:47 am to SlowFlowPro
Like Prichard Alabama on a large scale.
To everyone that believes that Social Security, Obamacare, Medicare, etc., are government 'guaranteed'.
Let this be a lesson that government guarantees nothing.
To everyone that believes that Social Security, Obamacare, Medicare, etc., are government 'guaranteed'.
Let this be a lesson that government guarantees nothing.
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