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re: Baseball Hall of Fame Announcement Thread- Bagwell, Raines, Pudge Elected to HOF

Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:54 pm to
Posted by Bench McElroy
Member since Nov 2009
33964 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

Career outside Coors Field:

.282/.372/.501 (.873)

Voters don't know what to do with Coors Field and I don't blame them. Compare Larry Walker to Jim Edmonds, who didn't even see a second ballot:

.284/.376/.527 (.903) and 8 GGs in center (plus the greatest catch in MLB history).


Walker was a superior player to Edmonds. For one, he was a much better baserunner. Walker's base running was worth 50 runs over his career. Jim Edmonds' baserunning was worth -4 runs. Walker regularly stole 14-18 bases every year during his prime at a very efficient level. Edmonds' career high in stolen bases was 10. Walker had an extra bases taken percentage of 52% during his career which is very good. That's better than Jose Reyes, Carl Crawford, and Jimmy Rollins and a bunch of other really good baserunners. Edmonds' extra bases taken percentage was 44% over his career.

Walker was also the better defensive player. According to Total Zone/Defensive Runs Saved, Edmonds was 37 runs above average defensively for his career. Walker was 94 runs above average for his career.

Finally, Edmonds is ranked 16th in career WAR among CFs. That's not bad until you realize that two of his contemporaries, Kenny Lofton and Andruw Jones both rank ahead of him in WAR. Lofton fell off the ballot after one year and it's unlikely Jones will last long on the ballot either. Meanwhile, Walker is 11th among RFs in career WAR. All ten RFs ahead of him in WAR are in the Hall of Fame and the two men ranked directly behind him (Tony Gwynn and Harry Heilmann) are in the HOF as well. Plus Walker still comes out on top when you look at stats that adjust their numbers for the ballpark such as wRC+ and OPS+ so yeah, the two really aren't comparable at all besides having similar counting stats.
Posted by Speedy G
Member since Aug 2013
3905 posts
Posted on 1/19/17 at 3:43 pm to
Walker was a very good baserunner, better than Edmonds, but...
quote:

Walker had an extra bases taken percentage of 52% during his career which is very good.

...was aided by playing a lot of games in a massive outfield.

That helped his defensive metrics, too.

quote:

Walker was also the better defensive player.

Nonsense. The numbers you are citing are incomplete; ending in 2001. Starting w/ Edmonds first full season (1994, which wasn't even a full season), they are 39 vs. 38. BB-Ref shows total zone fielding runs as 97 vs 87. They also show Edmonds with a 5.9 career dWAR vs. Walker's 1.5. Put Larry Walker in center and tell me who was the better OF. I will take a top 5 defensive CF over a top 5 defensive RF every time.

quote:

the two really aren't comparable at all besides having similar counting stats.

They are certainly comparable. LH slugging plus defensive OF from the same era w/ similar slash lines (when you adjust for Walker's silly ballpark). In fact, Edmonds is fourth on Walker's list of similarity scores.

It's fine to say Walker was the better player, but Edmonds lasting only 1 year on the ballot was ridiculous. So was Kenny Lofton.
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