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5yr. Balloon Loan w/ 10yr. Amort. (Any hidden things I should worry about?)

Posted on 8/16/16 at 11:56 am
Posted by TheWiz
Third World, LA
Member since Aug 2007
11685 posts
Posted on 8/16/16 at 11:56 am
Long story short, my wife and I have about $236,000 in student loan debt. My MBA and her MD. If we continue to follow our fairly strict budget, I should have that down to $205,000-$215,000 by next December. Currently, I pay interest only which is a little less than $1,000. I usually just pay $1,000 for even numbers. Then at the end of the month I pay an extra $3k when the budget is followed properly and I have the extra jingle.

The plan is for that note to become a five year note, though there was never anything officially said about what kind of 5-year note. I wanted to propose a 5-year balloon note with 10-year amortization. That would leave me with roughly a $2,000 - $2200/month note and then an extra $1800-$2000/month to apply to principle when money is flowing well; which it should be when my wife becomes an attending. Her income should at least triple, but the idea is to be able to pay it off with our current income levels and set money aside for having a child, etc...

TL;DR are there any problems I should expect to encounter with a balloon note, assuming my wife and I have very secure jobs?

This post was edited on 8/16/16 at 1:39 pm
Posted by TheWiz
Third World, LA
Member since Aug 2007
11685 posts
Posted on 8/16/16 at 3:35 pm to
Guess I'm good
This post was edited on 8/16/16 at 3:36 pm
Posted by Mr.Perfect
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2013
17438 posts
Posted on 8/16/16 at 5:27 pm to
quote:

are there any problems I should expect to encounter with a balloon note


The curveball lif is gonna throw at you for having a perfectly laid out plan


Honestly I think you have done your homework and have a good plan.
Posted by PeteRose
Hall of Fame
Member since Aug 2014
16920 posts
Posted on 8/16/16 at 6:28 pm to
quote:


TL;DR are there any problems I should expect to encounter with a balloon note, assuming my wife and I have very secure jobs?


I think the bank gives you an option to refi before the balloon payment. One of my properties is a 5 year fixed with balloon payment due next may. I'm probably going to refi to a 10 year amort.
Posted by TheWiz
Third World, LA
Member since Aug 2007
11685 posts
Posted on 8/17/16 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

The curveball lif is gonna throw at you for having a perfectly laid out plan


I know I know...
quote:

The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry


Hopefully socking away her +/- $100,000 gross income raise will set us up securely for that. Who knows though. Thanks for those that chimed in. Sounds like the balloon note is a safe move.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89620 posts
Posted on 8/18/16 at 5:45 am to
I don't think a balloon note is a "safe" move at all.

However, you have a clear plan and do not appear to have the dreaded disease of "our income will never be enough to retire this debt." Having a clear plan and solid budget fundamentals is literally 90% of the battle - take everything else I say with that in mind - you're "probably" fine with your plan.

On the other hand, what you're going to struggle with is the rising internal expectations associated with your rising gross household income. I'm of the opinion that you should live like monks - now - get the debt at least to an easily manageable level, and get off the train of paying a lot of interest with little retirement of the principal.

That balloon note will be sitting out there waiting - like you will have paid all this money and still have to make that loan and pay it all over again. That seems (potentially) demoralizing and self-defeating.

You didn't talk specifics about current income or expectations and I respect that. However, I would go back to square 1 - cut spending to the absolute, painful bone, until you cut the overall debt load (possibly excluding the mortgage on the primary home) to half or less of what it is now. Otherwise, in your shoes, I would feel like a debt slave for the foreseeable future.
Posted by 10MTNTiger
Banks of the Guadalupe
Member since Sep 2012
4139 posts
Posted on 8/18/16 at 6:53 am to
Balloon notes scare the shite out of me because you are essentially betting a great deal on unknown circumstances.

It looks like both you and your wife will be generating great income, why don't you go hire a financial advisor to manage this for you? Once the debt is cleared you can have them manage other aspects like your retirement investing as well. I employed one a couple years out of college when the cash from deployments was rolling in tax free and it was one of the best decisions I have ever made.
Posted by TheWiz
Third World, LA
Member since Aug 2007
11685 posts
Posted on 8/18/16 at 2:41 pm to
quote:

On the other hand, what you're going to struggle with is the rising internal expectations associated with your rising gross household income. I'm of the opinion that you should live like monks - now - get the debt at least to an easily manageable level, and get off the train of paying a lot of interest with little retirement of the principal.

I can't argue that. We run a tight budget now, but we still have some "fun" things budgeted. Monthly date nights, plated, yoga, etc... Could we free up some money by living in a hole? Sure. But I think we're doing a pretty good job by freeing up nearly $4,000/month of after tax money (Currently $1k to interest only). I max out my 401k. She has her 457 plan or whatever it is. I put about $25,000 into my house this year so that it would let me at least ride out the next 5-7 years with little to no maintenance. It was getting to a point where the repairs were beyond necessary anyway. We have a modest $235k home in Metairie. Our house has three extra bedrooms to grow a family. Staying in that home is part of the 5-7yr. plan. The only foreseeable changes are her car's lease ending and having a child. Yes, I said lease. Her thirteen year old car was dying on Claiborne and I was uncomfortable with that situation. We found that a lease fit us best at the time since we might need to upgrade for kids in the future.

Her income should jump from $55k to $150,000-$170,000. I work for a private company here in New Orleans. With bonus, which isn't guaranteed but historically happens, I get close to her future lower limit.

Based on our current track, it really steers us somewhere towards scenario 1 & 2 listed at the top. That leaves us with a balloon note at the end of nothing or next to nothing.

Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89620 posts
Posted on 8/18/16 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

But I think we're doing a pretty good job by freeing up nearly $4,000/month of after tax money (Currently $1k to interest only).


No question this is pretty substantial.

quote:

but we still have some "fun" things budgeted. Monthly date nights, plated, yoga, etc.


And I said "monks" - but as long as this is manageable, it doesn't seem unreasonable. However, you'll find that as you make more money, more and more of this kind of budget item will seem "essential" and not "luxury."

quote:

That leaves us with a balloon note at the end of nothing or next to nothing.


I hope it works out with few, if any, curveballs from life.
Posted by Wortivi22
Land of Mini Vans
Member since Dec 2007
855 posts
Posted on 8/18/16 at 4:10 pm to
Any chance you could get a fully amortizing loan and not have to worry about refi on the balloon? My worry would be that interest rates really can't go anywhere but up and you are taking a chance on the refi at 5 years reflecting that.
If you could lock in a 10 yr rate for 100 more (give or take) basis points, I think it would be worth it, rather than the unknown of future interest rates.
Posted by TheWiz
Third World, LA
Member since Aug 2007
11685 posts
Posted on 8/18/16 at 4:46 pm to
quote:

And I said "monks" - but as long as this is manageable, it doesn't seem unreasonable. However, you'll find that as you make more money, more and more of this kind of budget item will seem "essential" and not "luxury."

You're probably right. Plated transitions into Clancy's every Thursday and Romney spin classes get tacked on to yoga subscriptions. I'm sure it could happen. Hopefully we can keep that stuff at bay.

I really appreciate everyone's input.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4129 posts
Posted on 8/18/16 at 6:31 pm to
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. I don't assume that it's guaranteed. The bank holds the cards in a case like this. If market or economic conditions drastically change, that refi option may not be there. On commercial real estate loans, I've always tried to have another lender lined up well before the balloon date. Unless the loan is tied to an asset that I can liquidate, I'm a little shy about doing them these days. But hopefully this fellow's plan works out and he'll have it paid off by or before the balloon date.
Posted by AndyJ
Member since Jul 2008
2764 posts
Posted on 8/18/16 at 9:05 pm to
Here's the wrench. Your wife decides she doesn't love her job and wants to do a fellowship. Happens a lot in primary care. You might have to move and she will not get the salary bump you expect (at least for another 2-4 years).
This post was edited on 8/19/16 at 8:57 am
Posted by 632627
LA
Member since Dec 2011
12801 posts
Posted on 8/19/16 at 9:58 am to
quote:

quote:
And I said "monks" - but as long as this is manageable, it doesn't seem unreasonable. However, you'll find that as you make more money, more and more of this kind of budget item will seem "essential" and not "luxury."

You're probably right. Plated transitions into Clancy's every Thursday and Romney spin classes get tacked on to yoga subscriptions. I'm sure it could happen. Hopefully we can keep that stuff at bay.

I really appreciate everyone's input.


What's the point of making a really nice income if you aren't going to treat yourself? I had a friend that did this; he worked hard, made a shite ton of money, but refused to spend it in hopes of doing something grand a lot later in life. Unfortunately he died at 34 and never got to enjoy his wealth.
Posted by TheWiz
Third World, LA
Member since Aug 2007
11685 posts
Posted on 8/19/16 at 10:13 am to
quote:

Your wife decides she doesn't love her job and wants to do a fellowship. Happens a lot in primary care.

She is already in Fellowship for Allergy/Immunology. Around here, I don't think PCPs make shite. If that were the case, we'd probably be talking about $90,000 - $110,000 salaries.
Posted by TheWiz
Third World, LA
Member since Aug 2007
11685 posts
Posted on 8/19/16 at 10:16 am to
quote:

What's the point of making a really nice income if you aren't going to treat yourself? I had a friend that did this; he worked hard, made a shite ton of money, but refused to spend it in hopes of doing something grand a lot later in life. Unfortunately he died at 34 and never got to enjoy his wealth.

I mean... that's just really unfortunate, but I suppose it could happen to anyone. But look beyond that. Kill this $248,000 note in five years. Then I free up an additional $50,000 of after tax money. So by the age of 37, assuming things remain constant (which I'm sure they won't with kids etc...), I could/should have roughly $90,000 - $100,000 of after tax money to "enjoy" life on.

I get that what I am proposing is all best case scenarios and life isn't like that. I think that this is a solid plan, with a favorable backup plan (my wife's $100,000 gross raise saved annually, and it should position us well. Who's to say one of us isn't hit by the bus. I guess that's why we have DI and term.

I really do appreciate everyone's input about the balloon. I think I will go that route.
This post was edited on 8/19/16 at 10:19 am
Posted by 632627
LA
Member since Dec 2011
12801 posts
Posted on 8/19/16 at 10:39 am to
I'm not saying that someone who's about to get forclosed on should spend like a drunken sailor, but if you and your spouse are bringing in close to $300k a year why live like a monk?

Especially if you are young and don't have kids.
Posted by TheWiz
Third World, LA
Member since Aug 2007
11685 posts
Posted on 8/19/16 at 11:42 am to
Well, the plan is to have kids within the next year or so. The thought of private schools in New Orleans terrifies me. The prices are astronomical. I can't even fathom how these high school educations are worth $10k-$20k a year, but for some reason they are.

I should have noted in there that we do still travel very well. We usually take a +/- $10k summer trip every other year, ski in Montana almost yearly (fortunately we have a free place to stay), and go to San Francisco on average twice a year. I'm not eating ramen and bailing on friends regularly to save money, but I think we are far more frugal than my friends I see eating out & drinking 5 nights a week. They're the same ones that barely have any savings or a lackluster 401k/IRAs. But to each their own.
This post was edited on 8/19/16 at 11:47 am
Posted by 632627
LA
Member since Dec 2011
12801 posts
Posted on 8/19/16 at 12:33 pm to
Exactly my point, live it up and enjoy things to the fullest while you still can. Sounds like u are doing it right so far. It will be a lot harder to travel so much when the baby comes, and as the kids get older the expenses really rack up.
This post was edited on 8/19/16 at 12:38 pm
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20525 posts
Posted on 8/20/16 at 8:16 am to
Why are you not looking into a long term fixed rate? I agree with the above id rather lock in a long term fixed rate now than have a balloon. It can't be that big of a difference is it? Rates are so low right now I'd have no issue paying .25 more for a fixed rate. If life happens and you have to refinance in 2-4 years there's a good chance these low rates will be gone plus you'll have the piece of mind of no balloon payment.

I don't see the balloon as a big deal and it will
Motivate you to pay it off faster. I just think with historically low rates a long term fixed makes so much sense.
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