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re: Can you sell calls to establish a short position?
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:37 am to dabigfella
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:37 am to dabigfella
You're not going to get assigned shares in a short. You're going to have to buy shares, and then sell them to whomever exercies against you. You will left left holding nothing but your loss.
So in other words, right now as I type, you'd need to buys shares at 214.57, and have them sold at 213.5 if the call you sold was exercised. If not exercised, you could cover the option (buy to close) at over a 50% loss. Or wait.
Edit - And your naked trade is down 79% at open. What you collect .23-.79 for, now needs to be bought back for $1.73. Or if exercised, you'd need to buy 500 shares of SPY @ 214.86, and sell 500 shares at 213.50. You are left holding nothing. No short position.
Calls are named what they are becuase you can either call shares away (if you buy a call), or have shares called away from you (if you sell a call). And if you sell a call, shares are called away from you whether you own shares or not.
You're not going to hold anything. What I'm trying to graphically point out to you is that short SPY might, or might not be a bad trade, but the specific way you are describing going short is absolutely insane.
Otherwise, per your last sentence typed in your post above, you're going to have to explain to me how if this is exercised against you, and you sell the shares, how you will be able to hold anything until through September. Because there is nothing left to hold.
So in other words, right now as I type, you'd need to buys shares at 214.57, and have them sold at 213.5 if the call you sold was exercised. If not exercised, you could cover the option (buy to close) at over a 50% loss. Or wait.
Edit - And your naked trade is down 79% at open. What you collect .23-.79 for, now needs to be bought back for $1.73. Or if exercised, you'd need to buy 500 shares of SPY @ 214.86, and sell 500 shares at 213.50. You are left holding nothing. No short position.
Calls are named what they are becuase you can either call shares away (if you buy a call), or have shares called away from you (if you sell a call). And if you sell a call, shares are called away from you whether you own shares or not.
You're not going to hold anything. What I'm trying to graphically point out to you is that short SPY might, or might not be a bad trade, but the specific way you are describing going short is absolutely insane.
Otherwise, per your last sentence typed in your post above, you're going to have to explain to me how if this is exercised against you, and you sell the shares, how you will be able to hold anything until through September. Because there is nothing left to hold.
This post was edited on 7/12/16 at 8:43 am
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:48 am to Iowa Golfer
Thats why I was asking you if I could sell them to establish a short position....I wasn't telling you to put the trade on, I was asking "Can I do this" The answer is clearly a no then
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:08 pm to Iowa Golfer
quote:
Edit - And your naked trade is down 79% at open. What you collect .23-.79 for, now needs to be bought back for $1.73. Or if exercised, you'd need to buy 500 shares of SPY @ 214.86, and sell 500 shares at 213.50. You are left holding nothing. No short position.
I don't claim to be an expert but this doesn't make a lick of sense. I had a call spread I was short earlier this year. I don't remember exact strike prices but let's say 210 and 213. I was short 3 contracts at 210 and bought 3 long at 213. Trade moved against me and the 210 were assigned but the 213 were not in the money. I woke up short 300 shares of SPY which is exactly what bigfella wanted...
I ended up buying back to close the trade at a better price cuz SPY tanked that day after a big up day before but that's irrelevant. You sell a call that gets assigned you are now short shares. You don't buy shares and then short unless you want to close the position out.
I feel like you are unnecessarily scaring people away from the trade. No it's not the best method due to potential losses but bigfella isn't some small investor... his margin more than covers a 5 contract trade if that's how he wants to play it.
This post was edited on 7/12/16 at 8:37 pm
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