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re: The biggest rule change in NBA history happened in 2001.. and many don't realize
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:52 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:52 pm to SlowFlowPro
There is a reason you see so many teams that if they do want to post someone, they try to do really early in the clock before the defense gets set.
1
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:55 pm to htran90
quote:
scoring is harder inside, but it is definitely easier outside because of how the game is played.
Depends on the skill set of the player. Catch and shoot guys have it easier now because they often get open looks from their man helping off of them, but great ball handlers can get loose in an isolation situation regardless of handchecking or not.
I'd say it is mixed for slashers. Can probably get loose easier moving without the ball, but when you do there is usually someone helping over.
This post was edited on 5/26/16 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:56 pm to RTR America
And to be honest, I like both sets of rules in their own way.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:57 pm to PrimeTime Money
Ditto. There are pros and cons from game play before and after.
Hasn't affected my enjoyment of the game one iota.
Hasn't affected my enjoyment of the game one iota.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 4:59 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
And to be honest, I like both sets of rules in their own way.
Why playoff basketball is so good. There is a good mix of the physical play with all of the helping and complex defenses.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:02 pm to PrimeTime Money
Heck of a post. 
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:03 pm to RTR America
To be fair as well, a lot of the big men don't develop a post game at all these days. they depend on putbacks and dunks (drummond, jordan, etc). There are few like AD and Cousins, but they're leaning on jumpers a lot too because of how the rules have changed.
Wonder how an imposing guy like Shaq/Hakeem/kareem would do in his prime in today's era, you could double them but it seems they'd draw the foul easily
Wonder how an imposing guy like Shaq/Hakeem/kareem would do in his prime in today's era, you could double them but it seems they'd draw the foul easily
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:07 pm to htran90
hakeem would be great b/c he was so mobile and skilled
shaq is basically teh exception b/c he's such a quick/strong freak of nature
shaq is basically teh exception b/c he's such a quick/strong freak of nature
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:10 pm to S
I am 27 and not the biggest basketball fan on the planet, and I had no idea until after 2010 that defenses used to have to play man.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:12 pm to Jcorye1
quote:Not just man... but a very strict form of man where players were prevented from helping like you normally would in a man defense.
I am 27 and not the biggest basketball fan on the planet, and I had no idea until after 2010 that defenses used to have to play man.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:22 pm to htran90
quote:
they depend on putbacks and dunks (drummond, jordan, etc).
I'd argue these guys have always existed, but the new rules have allowed them to exceed what that type of skill level would have allowed in the past. Easier to catch lobs and get offensive rebound when your man has to help on a someone getting to the rim.
quote:
There are few like AD and Cousins
Really selling it short on that one a bit.
quote:
but they're leaning on jumpers a lot too because of how the rules have changed.
Every move needs a counter. Both guys can handle the ball very well for their size, but that doesn't help if no one is stepping out on you.
Back to the basket PF/C's are an odd position to talk about nowadays because guys seem to get a lot of flack for their teams not being amazing if they are the team's best player. I've seen it happen with Zbo, Big Al, Love, etc. As soon as they got to new teams with better pieces around them suddenly things got a bit easier on them. I think Zbo would have been a dominant post scorer in any era, but he spent most of his career being referred to as a black hole in this one until he got to Memphis.
quote:
Wonder how an imposing guy like Shaq/Hakeem/kareem would do in his prime in today's era, you could double them but it seems they'd draw the foul easily
I think they would all do fine because they were awesome. Shaq would destroy in the PnR and Hakeem is so damn nimble that doubles probably wouldn't be a problem for him.
I would love to see how Kareem's game would have adapted to people doubling his sky hook. Dirk's fadeaway has sort of been the modern version of it.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:35 pm to PrimeTime Money
this is the biggest pile of horse shite.
There's no new rule that you can't double team.
There's no new rule that you can't help on defense when someone drives to the goal, or even comes off a pick. These are things that were legal 15 years ago.
It's no different today than it was 15 years ago for the most part. You still can't roam and guard no one. You either need to commit to a double team, or stay near your guy. When you start floating around too far from your guy but not really doubling, that's illegal defense. It's the same today as it was 15 years ago.
All i saw was a weak side defender not getting over to help the second Barkely spun, which would not have been illegal defense. In todays NBA, everything would look the same, unless someone wanted to double, which they could have done in the video you posted.
That's not true. If they wanted to double, they can. No different than today.Difference between teh Barkely one and this Dwight one is Shawn Marion actually helped once the ball got into the paint, which isn't illegal today, or 15 years ago. Everyone else is in their proper non-illegal defense position.
Instead of showing a current gif of Lebron slowly making his way to the paint, and having everyone converge on him b/c his two low post guys converged as well, show a real iso post play and see how there's little difference. The KD clip is a semi fast break. The defense isn't even set. The comparisons here were apples to oranges.
The reason it looks more crowded now is b/c offenses want movement all the time, and think the iso offense is an antiquated and ineffecient offense. Teams preach ball movement and player movement, not being stagnant and watching one guy try to do it all. It's not b/c guys like Lebron and KD can't do that. It's b/c it's not the best way to win the game.
If someone today, wanted an iso play in the post, they could do it and it look just like the Barkley play. Problem is big men would rather shoot a three than try a low post move these days.
There's no new rule that you can't double team.
There's no new rule that you can't help on defense when someone drives to the goal, or even comes off a pick. These are things that were legal 15 years ago.
It's no different today than it was 15 years ago for the most part. You still can't roam and guard no one. You either need to commit to a double team, or stay near your guy. When you start floating around too far from your guy but not really doubling, that's illegal defense. It's the same today as it was 15 years ago.
quote:
Here is an example of a Charles Barkley post-up. Look at how the illegal defense rules cleared out the floor:
All i saw was a weak side defender not getting over to help the second Barkely spun, which would not have been illegal defense. In todays NBA, everything would look the same, unless someone wanted to double, which they could have done in the video you posted.
quote:
The only way they can go into the paint is when their man is within arm's length. Look at how much freaking space Charles Barkley has to go 1-on-1:
That's not true. If they wanted to double, they can. No different than today.Difference between teh Barkely one and this Dwight one is Shawn Marion actually helped once the ball got into the paint, which isn't illegal today, or 15 years ago. Everyone else is in their proper non-illegal defense position.
Instead of showing a current gif of Lebron slowly making his way to the paint, and having everyone converge on him b/c his two low post guys converged as well, show a real iso post play and see how there's little difference. The KD clip is a semi fast break. The defense isn't even set. The comparisons here were apples to oranges.
The reason it looks more crowded now is b/c offenses want movement all the time, and think the iso offense is an antiquated and ineffecient offense. Teams preach ball movement and player movement, not being stagnant and watching one guy try to do it all. It's not b/c guys like Lebron and KD can't do that. It's b/c it's not the best way to win the game.
If someone today, wanted an iso play in the post, they could do it and it look just like the Barkley play. Problem is big men would rather shoot a three than try a low post move these days.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:41 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:Actually, you can.
no different today than it was 15 years ago for the most part. You still can't roam and guard no one
quote:Actually, it's not.
You either need to commit to a double team, or stay near your guy. When you start floating around too far from your guy but not really doubling, that's illegal defense. It's the same today as it was 15 years ago.
quote:Actually, there would have been probably at least 2 guys standing right between Barkley and their man, which you can do now, not then.
All i saw was a weak side defender not getting over to help the second Barkely spun, which would not have been illegal defense. In todays NBA, everything would look the same, unless someone wanted to double, which they could have done in the video you posted
quote:Actually, it's because you can sag off of your man right up to the paint.
The reason it looks more crowded now is b/c offenses want movement all the time,
quote:And yet when a great player has it in the post, it never looks like that.
If someone today, wanted an iso play in the post, they could do it and it look just like the Barkley play
This post was edited on 5/26/16 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:48 pm to shel311
I really wish I could find some highlights of Zbo against the Spurs this postseason. They were sending like 4 guys at him every time he got it in the post.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:48 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:You COULD double team before 2001, but it had to be a hard double team where you leave your man completely. Meaning, you had to truly double team and not hang out in space. You couldn't have a soft double team where the help defender is guarding both his man and the man with the ball.
There's no new rule that you can't double team.
quote:You could help before 2001 ONLY when the player made a move to the basket. Until then, you had to stay at home on your man. Now, you can "cheat" to the middle to deter players from making a move.
There's no new rule that you can't help on defense when someone drives to the goal, or even comes off a pick.
And before 2001, when a pick was set, you had to make a decision. The rule stated: "A defensive player must follow his weakside offensive man, switch to another man at an area of intersection, or double-team the ball. There is no 2.9-second time limit on this play. A defensive player must execute one of these three options or he is guilty of an illegal defense immediately."
quote:Uhh, yes you can. You can go anywhere on the court you want. The ONLY illegal defensive rule now is 3 seconds in the lane.
You still can't roam and guard no one.
quote:No it isn't. You don't know the rules.
When you start floating around too far from your guy but not really doubling, that's illegal defense. It's the same today as it was 15 years ago.
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:50 pm to PrimeTime Money
Solid post
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:51 pm to RTR America
It was kinda comical
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:53 pm to TbirdSpur2010
I mean they just sort of doubled or tripled teamed him in the WCF, but with all the injuries they just blitzed the poor guy
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:53 pm to TeddyPadillac
Just imagine LeBron taking on the SF for almost any pre-2000 team with those rules. 
Posted on 5/26/16 at 5:54 pm to slackster
He would dominate. That's why it's always funny to me when people want to talk about him and the 90s. He would probably be a more dominant player as he would easily win these one on one situations on the perimeter and then have only have one player to clog the lane
This post was edited on 5/26/16 at 5:55 pm
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