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re: Spinoff Thread -- Handgun Stopping Power

Posted on 3/22/16 at 9:23 am to
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11911 posts
Posted on 3/22/16 at 9:23 am to
quote:

Cartridges like 9mm are loaded pretty "hot" with really well designed bullets, to ensure that the bullet penetrates deeply enough to reach vital organs. Cartridges like .40 or .357 SIG are "downloaded" a bit to ensure that their well-designed bullets don't over-penetrate. All of them just drill holes in bad guys.


Where does this info come from? I would be interested in doing some reading.

The research I've done in watching independent testers on YouTube shows that you actually get less penetration with increased velocity since the bullet expands at a faster rate. But this also creates a better/worse (depending on how you look at it) permanent wound cavity. And while some may doubt the validity of multiple independent testers, they use the same standards as the FBI and some even take it further than that to use two or three different types of media as well.

Of course this is all dependent on a well-designed hollow point with a bonded jacket. If you get jacket separation and the lead core doesn't expand much, it can act as an FMJ.

But it's funny how people blindly believe Hollywood despite them knowing Hollywood lies in other arenas as well (medicine, law, crime scenes, etc.). Every time I see a person fly off his/her feet when shot with a handgun in a movie I cringe. Or the single shot to the chest of an attacker and he/she is immediately dead. People find it crazy when I tell them that the person shot would most likely still be very alive and the shooter would probably watch that person choke on his/her own blood after a while. Hollywood lies - shocking!
Posted by dawg23
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jul 2011
5065 posts
Posted on 3/22/16 at 9:51 am to
quote:

The research I've done in watching independent testers on YouTube shows that you actually get less penetration with increased velocity since the bullet expands at a faster rate.
You're right, but it depends a lot on bullet design. What you say is very true, for example, for most .380 ammo. It's really hard to find good .380 ammo that will expand significantly and penetrate adequately.

Generally the faster a bullet travels, the more it expands. And the more it expands, the more energy it takes to push that larger surface area into the object. I often use the analogy of pushing a map pin into sheetrock vs. pushing a railroad spike into sheetrock. The spike, having a larger diameter, requires more force/energy to shove it into the drywall.

Speer was one of the first manufacturers to attack the problem from an "engineering" perspective. When they introduced their Gold Dot "short barreled revolver" cartridge in .38 Special (GDHP23921) a few years ago it was somewhat revolutionary. This bullet was designed to expand at lower velocities (since snub-nosed revolvers don't generate velocities as great as what one would typically see from a 6" barrel. I presume the jacket is thinned strategically, or the "partition cuts" in the jacket are altered to facilitate expansion. I think Speer now has a line of "short barrel" cartridges in several calibers.

But as you know, all of this is still secondary to accuracy. Tom Givens was the first person I heard say "A good hit with a marginal bullet is better than a marginal hit with a good bullet."

Posted by X123F45
Member since Apr 2015
27483 posts
Posted on 3/22/16 at 10:50 am to
Why is everyone so against explosive expansion?

The permanent pulverized wound cavity is the only part that matters unless you hit liver, heart, or spine.

A bullet that enters, and completely seperates within 6-10 inches and forms four .20 projectiles still traveling at 600fps or more has a much higher chance for a spinal injury or laceration to something important.

Powrball is dismissed by everyone, yet even the 9mm penetrates into the fourth gallon water jug, the same as hot .45 fmj.

Why are they dismissed? These aren't 1980s Glaser safety slugs.
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