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The knighting for Rob Ryan and the talent on the defense
Posted on 11/17/15 at 10:11 am
Posted on 11/17/15 at 10:11 am
This board is funny sometimes. After a year and a half of fans screaming for Ryan to get the boot and being tired of his defenses being completely unprepared and uninspired week in and week out, Rob Ryan is finally fired. And there seems to be a group of loud-mouthed fans who now wanted Ryan to stay and that Payton should have been the one let go.
I've read for weeks how bad of a coach Ryan is/was, and now all I seem to read is how good he really was and this is all Payton's fault. Or Vitt's fault. Or Johnson's fault. Or Loomis' fault. While all can certainly share blame, Rob Ryan is ultimately at fault for failing to have his unit ready to play.
People want to point that the defense is devoid of talent, and while very poor drafts have hurt us, this D has pieces to build around.
Veterans such as Cam Jordan, Ellerbe, Lewis are very good players.
Young talent such as Anthony, Kikaha, and Breaux will be even better next year.
Vaccaro has been solid, not spectacular. Byrd has been a disappointment with his injuries but he was a phenomenal player in this league for years. He didn't just lose that.
We can point to injuries, but the few times this team lined up all its starters on D, it still got beat up and down the field because Ryan has no clue how to maximize the talent of his players. They play sloppy and unorganized, things that remind me of Ryan's personality.
So far all those freaking out, be mad that the Saints made this hire to begin with, as it wasn't a good one when it first happened. We hired a DC that had just been fired with a history of poor defenses.
I've read for weeks how bad of a coach Ryan is/was, and now all I seem to read is how good he really was and this is all Payton's fault. Or Vitt's fault. Or Johnson's fault. Or Loomis' fault. While all can certainly share blame, Rob Ryan is ultimately at fault for failing to have his unit ready to play.
People want to point that the defense is devoid of talent, and while very poor drafts have hurt us, this D has pieces to build around.
Veterans such as Cam Jordan, Ellerbe, Lewis are very good players.
Young talent such as Anthony, Kikaha, and Breaux will be even better next year.
Vaccaro has been solid, not spectacular. Byrd has been a disappointment with his injuries but he was a phenomenal player in this league for years. He didn't just lose that.
We can point to injuries, but the few times this team lined up all its starters on D, it still got beat up and down the field because Ryan has no clue how to maximize the talent of his players. They play sloppy and unorganized, things that remind me of Ryan's personality.
So far all those freaking out, be mad that the Saints made this hire to begin with, as it wasn't a good one when it first happened. We hired a DC that had just been fired with a history of poor defenses.
14
Posted on 11/17/15 at 10:14 am to LSUZombie
Posted on 11/17/15 at 10:19 am to LSUZombie
In my opinion, it doesn't matter whose fault it is. As the head of the defense, he should be fired bc they are god awful. Maybe he got screwed with the situation but guess what; that's life. Being in charge isn't always fair, and you will always be the first to the guillotine.
The insane thing to me isn't that people are knighting for Ryan but are instead using the fact that the Offense is sucking (even though we are ranked #1 in Total Offense, #4 in total points, #7 in pts/game
) to defend him. Even if the other side of the ball sucked which it doesn't, the fact remains that the defense is terrible.It's not like they are starting out well and then failing because they are tired. No, quite the opposite; the offense becomes one dimensional after 3 drives because the d is giving up historically terrible numbers.
The fact remains, that argument doesn't make sense
The insane thing to me isn't that people are knighting for Ryan but are instead using the fact that the Offense is sucking (even though we are ranked #1 in Total Offense, #4 in total points, #7 in pts/game
) to defend him. Even if the other side of the ball sucked which it doesn't, the fact remains that the defense is terrible.It's not like they are starting out well and then failing because they are tired. No, quite the opposite; the offense becomes one dimensional after 3 drives because the d is giving up historically terrible numbers. The fact remains, that argument doesn't make sense
This post was edited on 11/17/15 at 10:22 am
Posted on 11/17/15 at 10:19 am to LSUZombie
I've been saying the entire season how tired I was of people solely bashing Ryan for all our problems. Did he pretty much have to go after the past few weeks? Yes...but I still think there are way more problems going on right now than anything Ryan did. I don't really want Payton gone yet but I do think just about all of the defensive coaching staff needs a hard look on who's doing what and if they're worth keeping.
Posted on 11/17/15 at 10:20 am to LSUZombie
quote:
seems to be a group of loud-mouthed fans who now wanted Ryan to stay and that Payton should have been the one let go.
The world is full of stupid people
Posted on 11/17/15 at 10:25 am to LSUZombie
quote:
e can point to injuries, but the few times this team lined up all its starters on D, it still got beat up and down the field
When was that. Closest game I can think of was atlanta
quote:
Veterans such as Cam Jordan, Ellerbe, Lewis are very good players.
2 of the 3 have been hurt
quote:
And there seems to be a group of loud-mouthed fans who now wanted Ryan to stay and that Payton should have been the one let go.
This post was edited on 11/17/15 at 10:29 am
Posted on 11/17/15 at 10:29 am to LSUZombie
I don't know if it's knighting for RR as much as it's realizing that, while you certainly can't argue with moving on from him, he's just one piece of much, much bigger problems organizationally. If you think firing him is going to solve problems, for this year at least, you're going to be disappointed.
Posted on 11/17/15 at 11:03 am to LSUZombie
One thing everyone should realize; when you have the worst D in the league everyone is under a microscope: players and coaches.
There will be many changes to this unit next season and it's not a given that Allen will have a job either.
There will be many changes to this unit next season and it's not a given that Allen will have a job either.
Posted on 11/17/15 at 11:14 am to LSUZombie
quote:
Veterans such as Cam Jordan, Ellerbe, Lewis are very good players.
Two of these guys missed a lot of time.
quote:
Young talent such as Anthony, Kikaha, and Breaux will be even better next year.
True. They performed well under Ryan.
quote:
Vaccaro has been solid, not spectacular. Byrd has been a disappointment with his injuries but he was a phenomenal player in this league for years. He didn't just lose that.
Byrd absolutely has lost whatever he had. Vaccaro is pretty average by any fair standard.
I'm not saying Ryan should have been retained. I have no issue with the move given the extent to which the defense has devolved over the last 3 games.
But, to pretend like Ryan was the primary cause of the problem is just plain wrong.
Posted on 11/17/15 at 11:33 am to LSUZombie
Whether he deserved to be fired or not, the players gave up on him and it has been evident for the last few games. Once players stop trusting the scheme and start playing their own game, it's over and a new voice is needed. You could even tell in Washington after the defense came off the field, Ryan didn't even bother going to to talk to anyone on the bench. He knew his coaching was being ignored.
I never liked the hire from the start. I just feel like he didn't have the resume to warrant another DC job after Cleveland and Dallas.
I never liked the hire from the start. I just feel like he didn't have the resume to warrant another DC job after Cleveland and Dallas.
Posted on 11/17/15 at 11:51 am to LSUZombie
quote:
LSUZombie
Sean Payton himself noted his accountability with fixing the defense starts with him.
Rob Ryan didn't get a fair shake with all the injuries.
Still in all, maybe Dennis Allen is an upgrade in Payton's eyes. He's got 6 games to figure that shite out.
Posted on 11/17/15 at 1:13 pm to LSUZombie
you tried to name the top 6 players on defense and ellerbe and BReaux made it in the conversation.
Thats not good.
Thats not good.
Posted on 11/17/15 at 1:43 pm to LSUZombie
it starts with loomis, who should be shitcanned at the end of the year but probably won't. hopefully ireland is being primed to slide into that role, an actual football guy, not a "guess how many beans in the jar" type
the defensive personnel by and large is chicken shite and you know what they say about chicken shite and chicken salad. rob ryan, buddy ryan, dennis allen... no one has a chance with that garbage.
the defensive personnel by and large is chicken shite and you know what they say about chicken shite and chicken salad. rob ryan, buddy ryan, dennis allen... no one has a chance with that garbage.
Posted on 11/18/15 at 8:56 am to LSUZombie
quote:
seems to be a group of loud-mouthed fans who now wanted Ryan to stay
I have not been on this board a lot the past 2 weeks because of traveling, but I have not seen anyone say this. It seems the consensus is that getting rid of Ryan will not solve the problem because we have a lot of the same assistants coaches that were here under Gibbs, Williams, Spags & now Ryan. Yet, we continue to replace the DC and see the same problems (especially the front 7).
Posted on 11/18/15 at 1:47 pm to LSUZombie
Not that SP is above criticism but the RR knighting makes zero sense. You can say whatever you want about talent and injuries, but last years D looked decent on paper, was coming off a strong performance in 13, and had just added Byrd. That defense ended up stinking up the division, so what was his excuse then?
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