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re: SWAT Team blames 1 year old for being in room, getting disfigured by flashbang

Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:33 pm to
Posted by BigDawg0420
Hamsterdam
Member since Apr 2010
7398 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:33 pm to
quote:

A copy of legal brief is included at the link, word for word.


That's supposed to give the article more credibility?
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20962 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

that's just an Answer and some Affirmative Defenses. they sound crazy b/c you have to absolutely deny anything possible in the answer or it's admitted...and you have to file all your affirmative defenses with the answer typically, so that's where shite gets really crazy. an affirmative defense means that even if the plaintiffs prove every fact at trial, they still lose as a matter of law. so that's why it reads so poorly.

this is not as nefarious as people will make it sound like




Let's assume that's true. You're still are defending throwing a flashbang into a crib with a sleeping baby in it. Think about that. They're arguing that's ok to do- you know by the guys that "protect and serve" us.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20962 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

That's supposed to give the article more credibility?


I quoted the brief, not the article.
Posted by GreatLakesTiger24
One State Solution
Member since May 2012
55962 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:35 pm to
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
59300 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:37 pm to
It's worth it if our war on drugs saves just one child.
Posted by theronswanson
House built with my hands
Member since Feb 2012
2978 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:38 pm to
quote:


Let's assume that's true. You're still are defending throwing a flashbang into a crib with a sleeping baby in it. Think about that. They're arguing that's ok to do- you know by the guys that "protect and serve" us.


What's the lawyer supposed to do? Not defend the client? Just type a one paragraph answer that says: "Yep, SWAT team fricked up. We admit everything. How much do you want?"

Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
424890 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

Let's assume that's true.

it is true

quote:

You're still are defending throwing a flashbang into a crib with a sleeping baby in it.

well these attorneys likely represent the insurance company for the city or governmental entity. that insurance company has a legitimate interest in preventing an unreasonable amount of damages, correct? they can't just go admitting everything or else they risk their client (the insurance company, not the cops or the city) having to pay damages they're not liable for.
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
98501 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

It is helpful to read the actual Answer rather than read some moron's misinterpretation of it.


I did, all the way through. Perhaps you missed this part, it was way at the end.

quote:


- 34 -
SIXTHDEFENSE
Plaintiffs' damages, if any, were caused by the independent acts anddecisions of persons and entities other than these defendants or those over whomthese defendants had some legal right of control.
SEVENTHDEFENSE
To the extent as may be shown by the evidence through discovery, thesedefendants show that plaintiffs' damages, if any, were directly and proximatelycaused by the contributory and comparative negligence of plaintiffs and their failure to exercise ordinary care.




quote:

Author William Norman Grigg is lazy or a moron or both. His findings are unbelievable because he misinterprets the Answer



In so many words, the defense is blaming the victims, including a one year old, for getting themselves blown up by a flash bang. Sounds like he interpreted it spot-on to me.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20962 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

What's the lawyer supposed to do? Not defend the client? Just type a one paragraph answer that says: "Yep, SWAT team fricked up. We admit everything. How much do you want?"


How about not defend the department? You don't have to fight every lawsuit. Give the plaintiffs what they want and forget about it. Fighting it leads to BS like this and super bad press.

If it were up to me I would fire and charge all involved in this monstrosity of a frick up, from the magistrate that signed off on this on down.
Posted by Salviati
Member since Apr 2006
5612 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

Let's assume that's true. You're still are defending throwing a flashbang into a crib with a sleeping baby in it. Think about that. They're arguing that's ok to do- you know by the guys that "protect and serve" us.
First, you seem to accept everything stated in the article as though it's true. I'm not sure the author deserves that much credibility:
quote:



Habersham County Sheriff, Joey Terrell, has allegedly given the most asinine defense about why a SWAT team blew a babies face off.


Based on the tone of the article, perhaps the author is biased? Does the phrase "the most asinine defense" suggest bias?

Does the picture of the baby suggest that, perhaps, the baby's face was not blown off? The author might have exaggerated?

Second, you assume that the targeting was intentional rather than inadvertent. Perhaps, we should let the facts play out?
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
98501 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

That's supposed to give the article more credibility?


When you can read the document in question for yourself, yeah, it does.
Posted by Dorothy
Munchkinland
Member since Oct 2008
18153 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

It's definitely a terrible situation but this story comes from a website dedicated to cop-bashing. I'd like to see the story from a more reputable source


Here's another link (from December), which gives a little more background to the story. LINK
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
98501 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:48 pm to
quote:

Based on the tone of the article, perhaps the author is biased? D


Again, the legal brief filed by the defense is there in the article. You don't even have to click another link. There's a lot of jargon and legalese to wade through, but it's there in black and white. You don't have to take anybody's word for it.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
84402 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:48 pm to
quote:

How about not defend the department? You don't have to fight every lawsuit.
I sure hope you never do something illegal and then use a lawyer during your trial.
Posted by Ghostfacedistiller
BR
Member since Jun 2008
17500 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:48 pm to
Disgusting
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
424890 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

SIXTHDEFENSE
Plaintiffs' damages, if any, were caused by the independent acts anddecisions of persons and entities other than these defendants or those over whomthese defendants had some legal right of control.
SEVENTHDEFENSE
To the extent as may be shown by the evidence through discovery, thesedefendants show that plaintiffs' damages, if any, were directly and proximatelycaused by the contributory and comparative negligence of plaintiffs and their failure to exercise ordinary care.

any lawyer worth anything who has defended a lawsuit will have similar affirmative defenses. this is just part of their form answer

and that AD doesn't blame the baby.
Posted by Salviati
Member since Apr 2006
5612 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

well these attorneys likely represent the insurance company for the city or governmental entity. that insurance company has a legitimate interest in preventing an unreasonable amount of damages, correct? they can't just go admitting everything or else they risk their client (the insurance company, not the cops or the city) having to pay damages they're not liable for.
Dude, did you read the Answer or just skim it?

The baby is not the only plaintiff. Other persons who were present at the time of the raid are also plaintiffs in this action. The Tenth Defense was probably intended to apply to the actions of those other plaintiffs.

quote:

TENTH DEFENSE
To the extent as may be shown by the evidence through discovery, plaintiffs'injuries and damages, if any, were caused by the deliberate, criminal conduct of plaintiffs, and such criminal conduct supersedes any and all negligence or liability,if any, on the part of these defendants.


In short, the plaintiffs other than the baby were engaged in criminal conduct, and that criminal conduct acts as a superseding cause of the damages. In part and in short, the cops would not have been there if not for the criminal conduct of the other plaintiffs who were present at the time of the raid.

The paragraph might be poorly drafted for not excepting out the baby, but the action is in federal court so notice pleading, and not fact pleading, is all that is required.


This post was edited on 5/26/15 at 12:56 pm
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20962 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

Based on the tone of the article, perhaps the author is biased? Does the phrase "the most asinine defense" suggest bias?

Does the picture of the baby suggest that, perhaps, the baby's face was not blown off? The author might have exaggerated?

Second, you assume that the targeting was intentional rather than inadvertent. Perhaps, we should let the facts play out?


1)Again, I didn't quote the article, I quoted the defense's response.

2)If the SWAT team didn't mean to toss a flashbang into the room, how did it get there? They also claimed they didn't know children were home, even though there were toys in the front lawn the morning after. The whole thing is a frick up all the way around.
Posted by tigerpimpbot
Chairman of the Pool Board
Member since Nov 2011
67115 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

quote:
What's the lawyer supposed to do? Not defend the client? Just type a one paragraph answer that says: "Yep, SWAT team fricked up. We admit everything. How much do you want?"


How about not defend the department? You don't have to fight every lawsuit. Give the plaintiffs what they want and forget about it. Fighting it leads to BS like this and super bad press.

If it were up to me I would fire and charge all involved in this monstrosity of a frick up, from the magistrate that signed off on this on down.


You sound naive. What if the family demanded $100,000,000 during presuit? The attorneys are retained by the insurance company to protect the monetary interests of the governmental entity. It's the lawyer's job to file an answer based only on the allegations that are made against the client. They have to raise those defenses before any discovery is taken in the case or all of their defenses are waived and the law firm's malpractice carrier is paying damages on the underlying claim.

It's just how the system is set up. The article uses the emotional reasoning of an 8th grade girl.
Posted by Artie Rome
Hwy 1
Member since Jul 2014
8757 posts
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

any lawyer worth anything who has defended a lawsuit will have similar affirmative defenses. this is just part of their form answer


This is very true. It's gross, but it is true.
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