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Message
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that's just an Answer and some Affirmative Defenses. they sound crazy b/c you have to absolutely deny anything possible in the answer or it's admitted...and you have to file all your affirmative defenses with the answer typically, so that's where shite gets really crazy. an affirmative defense means that even if the plaintiffs prove every fact at trial, they still lose as a matter of law. so that's why it reads so poorly.
this is not as nefarious as people will make it sound like
Let's assume that's true. You're still are defending throwing a flashbang into a crib with a sleeping baby in it. Think about that. They're arguing that's ok to do- you know by the guys that "protect and serve" us.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:34 pm to BigDawg0420
quote:
That's supposed to give the article more credibility?
I quoted the brief, not the article.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:35 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:37 pm to NYNolaguy1
It's worth it if our war on drugs saves just one child.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:38 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Let's assume that's true. You're still are defending throwing a flashbang into a crib with a sleeping baby in it. Think about that. They're arguing that's ok to do- you know by the guys that "protect and serve" us.
What's the lawyer supposed to do? Not defend the client? Just type a one paragraph answer that says: "Yep, SWAT team fricked up. We admit everything. How much do you want?"
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:42 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Let's assume that's true.
it is true
quote:
You're still are defending throwing a flashbang into a crib with a sleeping baby in it.
well these attorneys likely represent the insurance company for the city or governmental entity. that insurance company has a legitimate interest in preventing an unreasonable amount of damages, correct? they can't just go admitting everything or else they risk their client (the insurance company, not the cops or the city) having to pay damages they're not liable for.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:43 pm to Salviati
quote:
It is helpful to read the actual Answer rather than read some moron's misinterpretation of it.
I did, all the way through. Perhaps you missed this part, it was way at the end.
quote:
- 34 -
SIXTHDEFENSE
Plaintiffs' damages, if any, were caused by the independent acts anddecisions of persons and entities other than these defendants or those over whomthese defendants had some legal right of control.
SEVENTHDEFENSE
To the extent as may be shown by the evidence through discovery, thesedefendants show that plaintiffs' damages, if any, were directly and proximatelycaused by the contributory and comparative negligence of plaintiffs and their failure to exercise ordinary care.
quote:
Author William Norman Grigg is lazy or a moron or both. His findings are unbelievable because he misinterprets the Answer
In so many words, the defense is blaming the victims, including a one year old, for getting themselves blown up by a flash bang. Sounds like he interpreted it spot-on to me.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:44 pm to theronswanson
quote:
What's the lawyer supposed to do? Not defend the client? Just type a one paragraph answer that says: "Yep, SWAT team fricked up. We admit everything. How much do you want?"
How about not defend the department? You don't have to fight every lawsuit. Give the plaintiffs what they want and forget about it. Fighting it leads to BS like this and super bad press.
If it were up to me I would fire and charge all involved in this monstrosity of a frick up, from the magistrate that signed off on this on down.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:44 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:First, you seem to accept everything stated in the article as though it's true. I'm not sure the author deserves that much credibility:
Let's assume that's true. You're still are defending throwing a flashbang into a crib with a sleeping baby in it. Think about that. They're arguing that's ok to do- you know by the guys that "protect and serve" us.
quote:Based on the tone of the article, perhaps the author is biased? Does the phrase "the most asinine defense" suggest bias?
Habersham County Sheriff, Joey Terrell, has allegedly given the most asinine defense about why a SWAT team blew a babies face off.
Does the picture of the baby suggest that, perhaps, the baby's face was not blown off? The author might have exaggerated?
Second, you assume that the targeting was intentional rather than inadvertent. Perhaps, we should let the facts play out?
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:45 pm to BigDawg0420
quote:
That's supposed to give the article more credibility?
When you can read the document in question for yourself, yeah, it does.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:46 pm to BigDawg0420
quote:
It's definitely a terrible situation but this story comes from a website dedicated to cop-bashing. I'd like to see the story from a more reputable source
Here's another link (from December), which gives a little more background to the story. LINK
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:48 pm to Salviati
quote:
Based on the tone of the article, perhaps the author is biased? D
Again, the legal brief filed by the defense is there in the article. You don't even have to click another link. There's a lot of jargon and legalese to wade through, but it's there in black and white. You don't have to take anybody's word for it.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:48 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:I sure hope you never do something illegal and then use a lawyer during your trial.
How about not defend the department? You don't have to fight every lawsuit.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:50 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
SIXTHDEFENSE
Plaintiffs' damages, if any, were caused by the independent acts anddecisions of persons and entities other than these defendants or those over whomthese defendants had some legal right of control.
SEVENTHDEFENSE
To the extent as may be shown by the evidence through discovery, thesedefendants show that plaintiffs' damages, if any, were directly and proximatelycaused by the contributory and comparative negligence of plaintiffs and their failure to exercise ordinary care.
any lawyer worth anything who has defended a lawsuit will have similar affirmative defenses. this is just part of their form answer
and that AD doesn't blame the baby.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:51 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Dude, did you read the Answer or just skim it?
well these attorneys likely represent the insurance company for the city or governmental entity. that insurance company has a legitimate interest in preventing an unreasonable amount of damages, correct? they can't just go admitting everything or else they risk their client (the insurance company, not the cops or the city) having to pay damages they're not liable for.
The baby is not the only plaintiff. Other persons who were present at the time of the raid are also plaintiffs in this action. The Tenth Defense was probably intended to apply to the actions of those other plaintiffs.
quote:
TENTH DEFENSE
To the extent as may be shown by the evidence through discovery, plaintiffs'injuries and damages, if any, were caused by the deliberate, criminal conduct of plaintiffs, and such criminal conduct supersedes any and all negligence or liability,if any, on the part of these defendants.
In short, the plaintiffs other than the baby were engaged in criminal conduct, and that criminal conduct acts as a superseding cause of the damages. In part and in short, the cops would not have been there if not for the criminal conduct of the other plaintiffs who were present at the time of the raid.
The paragraph might be poorly drafted for not excepting out the baby, but the action is in federal court so notice pleading, and not fact pleading, is all that is required.
This post was edited on 5/26/15 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:53 pm to Salviati
quote:
Based on the tone of the article, perhaps the author is biased? Does the phrase "the most asinine defense" suggest bias?
Does the picture of the baby suggest that, perhaps, the baby's face was not blown off? The author might have exaggerated?
Second, you assume that the targeting was intentional rather than inadvertent. Perhaps, we should let the facts play out?
1)Again, I didn't quote the article, I quoted the defense's response.
2)If the SWAT team didn't mean to toss a flashbang into the room, how did it get there? They also claimed they didn't know children were home, even though there were toys in the front lawn the morning after. The whole thing is a frick up all the way around.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:53 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
quote:
What's the lawyer supposed to do? Not defend the client? Just type a one paragraph answer that says: "Yep, SWAT team fricked up. We admit everything. How much do you want?"
How about not defend the department? You don't have to fight every lawsuit. Give the plaintiffs what they want and forget about it. Fighting it leads to BS like this and super bad press.
If it were up to me I would fire and charge all involved in this monstrosity of a frick up, from the magistrate that signed off on this on down.
You sound naive. What if the family demanded $100,000,000 during presuit? The attorneys are retained by the insurance company to protect the monetary interests of the governmental entity. It's the lawyer's job to file an answer based only on the allegations that are made against the client. They have to raise those defenses before any discovery is taken in the case or all of their defenses are waived and the law firm's malpractice carrier is paying damages on the underlying claim.
It's just how the system is set up. The article uses the emotional reasoning of an 8th grade girl.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 12:55 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
any lawyer worth anything who has defended a lawsuit will have similar affirmative defenses. this is just part of their form answer
This is very true. It's gross, but it is true.
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