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re: Which human being has made the biggest impact on human history?

Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:10 am to
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64770 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:10 am to
quote:

1 in 200 men living today are direct descendants of Ghengis, sir.


That's still far less than 30% of the world's population. And of those 1 in 200 men, how much does Gengis influence their lives today?
Posted by TxTiger82
Member since Sep 2004
33950 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:10 am to
quote:

So even by their own criteria, the Khan falls short.


It isn't just the empire. As others have pointed out, Genghis Khan united Asia in trade for the first time and he sired more children than any human in history.
Posted by lsucoonass
shreveport and east texas
Member since Nov 2003
68484 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:11 am to
Yeah but khan conquered and or had influence in most of what is shaded in red except for the parts of Africa and Cuba
Posted by DanW1
Member since Jan 2013
1103 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:12 am to
I have to go with Thomas Midgley, Jr.



Key figure in the development of tetraethyllead and its use in gasoline as well as some of the first chlorofluorocarbons.

Ban on leaded petrol 'has cut crime rates around the world'





Midgley, according to environmental historian J. R. McNeill "had more impact on the atmosphere than any other single organism in Earth's history."


He was known as a great inventor and well recieved during his lifetime, up until the effects of his works were known.

Ironically, another invention of his created with good intentions, a system of pulleys used to lift himself from bed due to a disease, strangled him to death.
Posted by biglego
Ask your mom where I been
Member since Nov 2007
76533 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:13 am to
Paul never met Jesus and essentially created Christianity from the kernel left by Jesus. Jesus' own apostles didn't agree with Paul. Jesus brother James was the leader in Jerusalem of the Jesus cult after the crucifixion and he disagreed with Paul. For example James died as a stalwart Jew. He never believed the Old Testament law was abrogated, and Jesus didn't clearly teach that either. That was Paul alone.

Paul had the advantage of being a Roman citizen and he decided to teach Gentiles--another thing Jesus never did. Nor were Jesus' surviving followers who actually knew him. So without Paul, the memory of Jesus doesn't spread from Palestine and is extinguished by the Romans in 70 AD.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64770 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:17 am to
quote:

It isn't just the empire. As others have pointed out, Genghis Khan united Asia in trade for the first time and he sired more children than any human in history.



Yeah he connected Europe and Asia. But the influence of Jesus reaches all around the entire world. Western Civilization it's has been bases on his teaching for the last two millenia.

I'd rank Genghis no higher than 3rd or even 4th on this list.

1. Jesus
2. Mohammad
3. Karl Marx
4. Genghis Khan (arguably)
Posted by biglego
Ask your mom where I been
Member since Nov 2007
76533 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:17 am to
The empire Genghis left eventually destroyed the caliphate in Baghdad. Islam has never recovered it's vibrancy nor it's central authority, which is a problem when any slapdick imam can declare a fatwa whenever he's in a mood.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423378 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:17 am to
it's not just about empire building. khan killed a lot of people, fricked a lot of women, but also connected europe and asia

the silk road was a big deal

and IN KHAN'S LIFE, he established the silk road and opened up trade between the east and west. the issue you get with Jesus is how much of the spread gets attributed to Jesus or others. even marx has this issue. we don't have it with ghengis.

in a meta way, it's kind of an ironic dividing point. on one hand we have a concrete example and on the other we have hopes and connectivity
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64770 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:24 am to
quote:

Yeah but khan conquered and or had influence in most of what is shaded in red except for the parts of Africa and Cuba


It's still less. Here's a map showing the Mongol Empire from it's start to it's fall...



Now compare that to the map showing the spread of Communism.


Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423378 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:27 am to
but marx didn't spread communism, so you can't give him that credit. now lenin and his cronies? yeah

but wasn't lenin dead before china converted? he certainly was dead before the post WW2 expansion.

do we give that credit to stalin? he got eastern europe, china, north korea, cuba, and those african states
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64770 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:30 am to
quote:

it's not just about empire building. khan killed a lot of people, fricked a lot of women, but also connected europe and asia

the silk road was a big deal

and IN KHAN'S LIFE, he established the silk road and opened up trade between the east and west. the issue you get with Jesus is how much of the spread gets attributed to Jesus or others. even marx has this issue. we don't have it with ghengis.

in a meta way, it's kind of an ironic dividing point. on one hand we have a concrete example and on the other we have hopes and connectivity



There was contact and trade between the East & West long before Ghengis came along. Here's a map showing trade routes that existed hundreds of years before his time....



And as for the Silk Road, there was trade between China and Europe dating back to the Roman Empire. The Silk Road itself existed centuries before Genghis....

quote:

Soon after the Roman conquest of Egypt in 30 BC, regular communications and trade between China, Southeast Asia, India, the Middle East, Africa, and Europe blossomed on an unprecedented scale. The eastern trade routes from the earlier Hellenistic powers and the Arabs that were part of the Silk Road were inherited by the Roman Empire. With control of these trade routes, citizens of the Roman Empire would receive new luxuries and greater prosperity for the Empire as a whole.[24] The Greco-Roman trade with India started by Eudoxus of Cyzicus in 130 BC continued to increase, and according to Strabo (II.5.12), by the time of Augustus, up to 120 ships were setting sail every year from Myos Hormos in Roman Egypt to India.[25] The Roman Empire connected with the Central Asian Silk Road through their ports in Barygaza (known today as Bharuch [26]) and Barbaricum (known today as the cities of Karachi, Sindh, and Pakistan [27]) and continued along the western coast of India.[28] An ancient "travel guide" to this Indian Ocean trade route was the Greek Periplus of the Erythraean Sea written in 60 CE.

The travelling party of Maës Titianus penetrated farthest east along the Silk Road from the Mediterranean world, probably with the aim of regularizing contacts and reducing the role of middlemen, during one of the lulls in Rome's intermittent wars with Parthia, which repeatedly obstructed movement along the Silk Road. Intercontinental trade and communication became regular, organized, and protected by the 'Great Powers.' Intense trade with the Roman Empire soon followed, confirmed by the Roman craze for Chinese silk (supplied through the Parthians), even though the Romans thought silk was obtained from trees. This belief was affirmed by Seneca the Younger in his Phaedra and by Virgil in his Georgics. Notably, Pliny the Elder knew better. Speaking of the bombyx or silk moth, he wrote in his Natural Histories "They weave webs, like spiders, that become a luxurious clothing material for women, called silk."[29] The Romans traded spices, perfumes, and silk.[30]


A Westerner on a camel, Northern Wei Dynasty (386–534)
Roman artisans began to replace yarn with valuable plain silk cloths from China.[31] Chinese wealth grew as they delivered silk and other luxury goods to the Roman Empire, whose wealthy Roman women admired their beauty.[32] The Roman Senate issued, in vain, several edicts to prohibit the wearing of silk, on economic and moral grounds: the importation of Chinese silk caused a huge outflow of gold, and silk clothes were considered to be decadent and immoral.

I can see clothes of silk, if materials that do not hide the body, nor even one's decency, can be called clothes... Wretched flocks of maids labour so that the adulteress may be visible through her thin dress, so that her husband has no more acquaintance than any outsider or foreigner with his wife's body.[33]

The Roman Empire, and its demand for sophisticated Asian products, crumbled in the West around the 5th century.

The unification of Central Asia and Northern India within Kushan Empire in the 1st to 3rd centuries reinforced the role of the powerful merchants from Bactria and Taxila.[34] They fostered multi-cultural interaction as indicated by their 2nd century treasure hoards filled with products from the Greco-Roman world, China, and India, such as in the archeological site of Begram.


I see now that I've presented facts that counter your arguments, instead of making a counter argument, you resort to downvotes, even going back to downvote everything I've posted in this thread. How petty and small. I thought more of you than this.

This post was edited on 4/18/15 at 10:38 am
Posted by Rickety Cricket
Premium Member
Member since Aug 2007
46883 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:41 am to
quote:

Oh, poor stupid little boy got his little sensitive feelings hurt.

You poor, dumb little idiot. You're so deluded and dumb that you've tricked yourself into thinking you're smart. Truth be told, you're nothing but an impudent, stupid little shite who doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground.

You've got a lot of growing up to do and a lot ot learn about this world, stupid little boy.

That's some strong butthurt. You should try and not be so mad, anger is not an admirable quality.
Posted by biglego
Ask your mom where I been
Member since Nov 2007
76533 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:43 am to
You can see who downvotes you?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423378 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:44 am to
Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64770 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:46 am to
Never mind, I see Cricket is here. His obsession with downvoting everything I post is well known. He's a small, feeble minded, sad little internet troll.

ETA: This was a pretty cool back and forth debate but now I see it's about to devolve into the usual troll fest and insults. I've got better things to do than waste my time on this.
This post was edited on 4/18/15 at 10:48 am
Posted by lsucoonass
shreveport and east texas
Member since Nov 2003
68484 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:48 am to
He down votes everything typical liberal pansy
Posted by lsucoonass
shreveport and east texas
Member since Nov 2003
68484 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:50 am to
Communism is modern and relies on a heavily centralized govt. what khan did with a limited supply, limited technology, etc surpasses Marx imo
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
65873 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:51 am to
With the exception of parts of China (and technically Antartica) the entire world has at one time been at least nominally controlled by a Christian nation for some time in it's existence.

So the Khan or Marx ain't got shite on Jesus.

Possibly Japan would be an exception as well, my pop who went in as an occupying force in mid-1945 might argue the point but the Japanese Emperor was left on the throne.
This post was edited on 4/18/15 at 10:52 am
Posted by lsucoonass
shreveport and east texas
Member since Nov 2003
68484 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:52 am to
He did beat Shawn michaels
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
56455 posts
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:53 am to
No you don't.

quote:

1. Jesus
2. Mohammad

No Akhenaten, no monotheism, no Abraham and no Jews, Christians or Muslims. And Marx was a Jew so you can also include communism in things that came about due to the influence of the Egyptian monotheist.
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