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Who is worse: Walter White or Daniel Plainview? (SPOILERS TIL THE END)
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:20 pm
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:20 pm
OK, just got done with Breaking Bad, and I see Walter White as utterly deplorable. I was rooting for Walt taking out Gus, but once he poisoned the kid, sorry, but I started actively rooting for his demise. Really the only other character I can think of who has had such a villainous decompensation is Daniel Plainview, and I still think Walt is worse than him.
Really all Daniel did was murder a guy who was extorting him, and kill a guy where they've always truly hated each other and never trusted one another. What makes Daniel truly horrible to me is what he did to his son, really abandoning him in his hour of need and then in adulthood calling him a bastard and completely disowning him.
Yes, Daniel was a dick, and I'll give Walt that he at least attempted to provide for his children, but everything else I find about him to be much worse than Plainview. From the start he could have avoided all of this by swallowing his pride and accepting the money from his former partners, but he wouldn't take any of it and was willing to put his entire family and Jesse down the Highway to Hell. Despite what he told himself, I don't think he had any plans on quitting from the start and forced Jesse to come down this horrible path with him.
I think he subconsciously despised his wife and son and enjoyed playing them against one another. Strangely I think the only member of his family he actually liked was Hank himself, and thought of this as a long term cat-and-mouse game with him. If he truly put his family first, he could have gotten out of the game much sooner, like when his partners made the offer to him, or tops after he made Gus his first batch. Even after all the shite hit the fan, he could have easily taken the 5 million and gotten away with it as Jesse and Mike insisted. And in the middle of Season 5 when he decides to call it "quits", I think he was really full of shite and that he had every intention of cooking meth again since he already had the money and the resources to get back in any time he wanted to.
But as much as his family got fricked by this, Jesse was his ultimate victim and plaything. Walt's soul I think was pretty much fricked from the start, but Jesse really was an innocent who just had a drug problem. He basically murdered his girlfriend simply because he could. He blackmails Jesse into doing all of his real dirty work. And then when Walt had had at least half a dozen opportunities to walk away from meth cooking before, he poisons Jesse's adopted son in order to convince him to kill the man who would only harm him. Then when all this is done, they have a golden opportunity to take 5 million and walk away, but Walt tries to frick all up for them simply out of spite.
But at least all these had some sort of purpose, as selfish as they were. But what in god's name was he doing at the start of "Ozymandias"? He sells Jesse into slavery, and then simply out of spite he tells Jesse how he basically killed Jane and enjoyed it. There was no benefit to that, especially after all the hell Walt put him through and what he is about to go through. That was just plain evil. At least Plainview just killed Eli after taunting him horribly, which would have honestly been the most kind thing Walt could have done for Jesse at that point considering where he was.
And I haven't even brought up Mike and the countless other people killed in the name of Heisenberg.
So who is worse?
Really all Daniel did was murder a guy who was extorting him, and kill a guy where they've always truly hated each other and never trusted one another. What makes Daniel truly horrible to me is what he did to his son, really abandoning him in his hour of need and then in adulthood calling him a bastard and completely disowning him.
Yes, Daniel was a dick, and I'll give Walt that he at least attempted to provide for his children, but everything else I find about him to be much worse than Plainview. From the start he could have avoided all of this by swallowing his pride and accepting the money from his former partners, but he wouldn't take any of it and was willing to put his entire family and Jesse down the Highway to Hell. Despite what he told himself, I don't think he had any plans on quitting from the start and forced Jesse to come down this horrible path with him.
I think he subconsciously despised his wife and son and enjoyed playing them against one another. Strangely I think the only member of his family he actually liked was Hank himself, and thought of this as a long term cat-and-mouse game with him. If he truly put his family first, he could have gotten out of the game much sooner, like when his partners made the offer to him, or tops after he made Gus his first batch. Even after all the shite hit the fan, he could have easily taken the 5 million and gotten away with it as Jesse and Mike insisted. And in the middle of Season 5 when he decides to call it "quits", I think he was really full of shite and that he had every intention of cooking meth again since he already had the money and the resources to get back in any time he wanted to.
But as much as his family got fricked by this, Jesse was his ultimate victim and plaything. Walt's soul I think was pretty much fricked from the start, but Jesse really was an innocent who just had a drug problem. He basically murdered his girlfriend simply because he could. He blackmails Jesse into doing all of his real dirty work. And then when Walt had had at least half a dozen opportunities to walk away from meth cooking before, he poisons Jesse's adopted son in order to convince him to kill the man who would only harm him. Then when all this is done, they have a golden opportunity to take 5 million and walk away, but Walt tries to frick all up for them simply out of spite.
But at least all these had some sort of purpose, as selfish as they were. But what in god's name was he doing at the start of "Ozymandias"? He sells Jesse into slavery, and then simply out of spite he tells Jesse how he basically killed Jane and enjoyed it. There was no benefit to that, especially after all the hell Walt put him through and what he is about to go through. That was just plain evil. At least Plainview just killed Eli after taunting him horribly, which would have honestly been the most kind thing Walt could have done for Jesse at that point considering where he was.
And I haven't even brought up Mike and the countless other people killed in the name of Heisenberg.
So who is worse?
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:23 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
but once he poisoned the kid,
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:24 pm to OMLandshark
I thought both were pretty cool and would love to have a beer with either of them.
You can't say "Plainview killed a guy that was extorting him, no biggie" and then give Walt shite for that. She was extorting the shite out of him.
You mess with the bull, you're gonna get the horns. All of those people should have tread lightly, especially that dickhead kid that Walt poisoned.
quote:
He basically murdered his girlfriend simply because he could.
You can't say "Plainview killed a guy that was extorting him, no biggie" and then give Walt shite for that. She was extorting the shite out of him.
quote:
And I haven't even brought up Mike and the countless other people killed in the name of Heisenberg.
You mess with the bull, you're gonna get the horns. All of those people should have tread lightly, especially that dickhead kid that Walt poisoned.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:46 pm to OMLandshark
Walter White and it's not close. Daniel killed people that deserved it. Walter directly and indirectly killed a LOT of people. Plus the whole meth thing.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:49 pm to OMLandshark
Walter was worse.
Alcohol addiction contributed to Daniel Plainview's deterioration, people using him for money, sand just overall bitterness.
Walter woke up, and he became the monster that he was always meant to be. He had no problem blowing up a nursing home, killing ten men, running over people. He would have killed gale. Saw what he did to Jack's crew, and the whole Jane situation.
Not to mention profiting off the addictions of others. No telling how many lives were ruined by his pure methamphetamine that we didn't see. It took him less than two years to become a callous ruthless tyrant.
Alcohol addiction contributed to Daniel Plainview's deterioration, people using him for money, sand just overall bitterness.
Walter woke up, and he became the monster that he was always meant to be. He had no problem blowing up a nursing home, killing ten men, running over people. He would have killed gale. Saw what he did to Jack's crew, and the whole Jane situation.
Not to mention profiting off the addictions of others. No telling how many lives were ruined by his pure methamphetamine that we didn't see. It took him less than two years to become a callous ruthless tyrant.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:58 pm to OMLandshark
Team Walt.
How dare you talk bad about Walter White. The man is the embodiment of the American can-do spirit and self-reliance.
How dare you talk bad about Walter White. The man is the embodiment of the American can-do spirit and self-reliance.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 8:28 am to OMLandshark
Overall, I suppose Walt is worse. His self-delusion destroyed a lot of lives.
Plainview, however, was pretty despicable if you think about it. No matter alcoholic self-destruction, his actions toward his son are inexcusable.
Plainview, however, was pretty despicable if you think about it. No matter alcoholic self-destruction, his actions toward his son are inexcusable.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 10:01 am to OMLandshark
MY POST IS FULL OF SPOILERS:
Untrue. Not saving does not equal murdering (we can agree they are similar in moral depravity, though).
Kind of - but he was generally loyal and protective of Jesse to a fault - and took fairly significant risks to save Jesse's life on several occasions.,
But he didn't kill the kid. Deplorable, but Walt justified a lot of things due to desperation, "need" and exigency. His depravity knew very few limits.
At that point - Walt blamed all of his own internal flaws and failures on Jesse. He blamed Jesse for Hank's death.
Even Walt realized that was unnecessary, albeit too late. Again, he justified everything from his excuse bank.
But you are ignoring the obvious story of redemption at the end... he frees Jesse (at the cost of his own life), sets up his family for life (which is why he started the whole thing in the first place) - it doesn't make up for everything he did, but at least he found his center at the very end of the story.
(ETA: And at the end, Plainview is purely irredeemable - he went in the opposite direction of Walt, at least at the very end.)
quote:
He basically murdered his girlfriend simply because he could.
Untrue. Not saving does not equal murdering (we can agree they are similar in moral depravity, though).
quote:
He blackmails Jesse into doing all of his real dirty work.
Kind of - but he was generally loyal and protective of Jesse to a fault - and took fairly significant risks to save Jesse's life on several occasions.,
quote:
he poisons Jesse's adopted son in order to convince him to kill the man who would only harm him.
But he didn't kill the kid. Deplorable, but Walt justified a lot of things due to desperation, "need" and exigency. His depravity knew very few limits.
quote:
He sells Jesse into slavery, and then simply out of spite he tells Jesse how he basically killed Jane and enjoyed it.
At that point - Walt blamed all of his own internal flaws and failures on Jesse. He blamed Jesse for Hank's death.
quote:
And I haven't even brought up Mike
Even Walt realized that was unnecessary, albeit too late. Again, he justified everything from his excuse bank.
But you are ignoring the obvious story of redemption at the end... he frees Jesse (at the cost of his own life), sets up his family for life (which is why he started the whole thing in the first place) - it doesn't make up for everything he did, but at least he found his center at the very end of the story.
(ETA: And at the end, Plainview is purely irredeemable - he went in the opposite direction of Walt, at least at the very end.)
This post was edited on 3/20/15 at 10:03 am
Posted on 3/20/15 at 10:12 am to OMLandshark
You do realize he poisoned Brock with a completely curable poison on purpose and but for Jesse being at his wits end and telling the doctors to look for ricin, Brock would have eventually been fine, right?
Now, using kid as leverage is bad, but I don't think it was a true attempt on his life.
But Walt is a scumbag, no doubt.
Now, using kid as leverage is bad, but I don't think it was a true attempt on his life.
But Walt is a scumbag, no doubt.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 4:30 pm to OMLandshark
I only saw a few episodes of breaking Bad, but that Landry (forget his name in B Bad) was absolutely soulless.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 4:46 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Jesse was his ultimate victim and plaything. Walt's soul I think was pretty much fricked from the start, but Jesse really was an innocent who just had a drug problem.
Screw Jesse. He would have been killed by Crazy 8 in the first episode if not for Walt.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 5:55 pm to OMLandshark
Plainview gained the world, but lost his soul.
Walter White lost his soul and everything else.
Both earned what was coming to them.
Walter White lost his soul and everything else.
Both earned what was coming to them.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 7:09 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I was rooting for Walt taking out Gus, but once he poisoned the kid, sorry, but I started actively rooting for his demise.
technically he poisoned the kid before he killed Gus.
This post was edited on 3/20/15 at 7:11 pm
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