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re: Cop stands up to gun nut in Texas.

Posted on 2/28/15 at 5:32 am to
Posted by SamuelClemens
Earth
Member since Feb 2015
11727 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 5:32 am to
quote:

quote: So the logic is that if it is illegal for some people to do something then the cops should ID people who are doing it just to make sure they aren't prohibited?

Like showing ID to get in a casino, purchase age restricted goods & services, operate a motor vehicle, get on an airplane.
Posted by ChewyDante
Member since Jan 2007
16927 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 11:19 am to
quote:

Like showing ID to get in a casino, purchase age restricted goods & services, operate a motor vehicle, get on an airplane.





This comparison is completely invalid and spurious. A more apt comparison would be police officers stopping any motor vehicle they wish, with no probable cause, to check for DL, insurance, whatever.

First off, let me point out that the guy in the video definitely acted like a douche and the cop was cool as shite and handled that situation about as well as I've seen any cops do. That being said, that doesn't justify the cop's detention of someone breaking no laws, which I don't personally blame the officer for, I'm sure that's what he's been instructed to do.

With that being said, those things are really irrelevant to the actual discussion of whether the detainment was justified or not. In the state of Texas, open carry is legal. That has been settled via statute. Thus if the police or other citizens have an issue with it, they should appeal to the legislature to change the law. If you don't like that it's legal, that doesn't give you the right to harass and illegally detain citizens who exercise those legal rights. The principle is the same whether it involves open carrying firearms or police stopping vehicles with "suspicious" persons with no actual probable cause. I understand that the dynamics are obviously different but the fundamental principles are the same and many are insisting that, in this case, police should be allowed to flaunt the law and violate people's liberties, because some citizens are ignorant of or fearful of the liberty that has been provided. That's a very dangerous and I suspect hypocritical road to go down.

As the video showed, the cops released this gentleman. He did nothing illegal. He was NOT required to show his ID. The cop could clearly be heard on the phone with the DA saying he really didn't have any probable cause to detain or ID the individual. He was uncomfortable with the situation as well, knowing that the people who flagged him down were reacting to something legal.

While the guy in the video handled it like a douche, he is taking it on himself to determine whether the so called liberties the state says the people have are nominally in existence or actually in existence. That's something of value and it does stimulate a worthwhile discussion and case study regarding whether your liberties as guaranteed by law actually exist or whether they can be violated due to police discretion or individual dissent from other citizens outside the parameters of law.

I've read a lot of complaints on this board regarding the dubious legality of DUI checkpoints. I also suppose most here would agree that the police do not have a right to stop and search, detain, or demand ID from anyone, either as a pedestrian or in a vehicle, without probable cause. The exact same condition holds true in this case as well, even if someone carrying a weapon makes you uncomfortable. The gentleman in the video was a horrible spokesperson for the open carry movement, IMO, however that is little more than a distraction from the substantive question of whether his actions and that of the police were consistent with the law.
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