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Jozy and this upcoming transfer window

Posted on 12/14/14 at 4:05 am
Posted by mynamebowl
Houston
Member since Jun 2012
1712 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 4:05 am
It's critical he goes to the right kind of club. Because he did not the last time he switched clubs. I talked myself into it being a good move for him at the time. But deep down I kind of new it was not the right place for him. It didn't seem to make any sense. A mid table/bottom of the table Premier League Club like Sunderland is not where Jozy needs to be. The club/city/philosophy/playing style, whatever it is, is not working for him. And after his little mishap today, surely it's time for Sunderland to sell/loan him in January. I hardly pay attention to soccer transfer rumors. Has he been linked to anyone? Staying at Sunderland surely cannot be an option.

This post was edited on 12/14/14 at 4:10 am
Posted by mynamebowl
Houston
Member since Jun 2012
1712 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 4:19 am to
Here's my half-drunk, delirious 4 am opinion on the matter:

If he is in the right situation at a good club, with the right coach, and before he's no longer in his prime, I honestly think he could put it together for a couple/few years for a big team in a big league and score a lot of goals. Hell, we've seen him do it. I understand that AZ is not a big club and the Eredivisie is not what it once was, but he scored some really incredible goals over there. And not just the "Eredivisie plays shite defense goals." I mean, they do play shite defense and all. But the quality, skill, talent he showed over there was real. It was awesome to see how much his overall game improved too. And just like a streaky scorer in any other sport, when he's hot, he's a match winner. Watching his youtube videos from his time over there, it's hard to believe it's the same guy. The confidence he was playing with for AZ made him such a fun player to watch. It seemed like he was constantly improving under that crazy haired dude who managed AZ at the time. Can't think of his name right now. ETA: Gertjan Verbeek. For whatever reason though, he's regressed. And pretty drastically. His confidence, swagger, touch, creativity. It's all just gone to shite. He looks scared to death out there.

This may delusional on my part the way things are going for him now, but I honestly think he could actually do really well getting consistent minutes for a top 6ish type club in a big league that likes to attack. Maybe a team in Ligue 1 or something. I've seen that brought up on here a few times. I think he's the kind of player that just needs good players around him, players he can have fun playing football with. That is certainly not the case for him at Sunderland right now.

Anyway, I'm interested to see where he goes next and I hope things work out for him. He seems like a good dude. Oh, and also because the USMNT somehow, inexplicably, can't seem to produce one even remotely world class striker, we need him to not be so terrible.

And I hope he doesn't come back to MLS. Not yet. He needs to do it in Europe.
This post was edited on 12/14/14 at 4:21 am
Posted by Dijkstra
Michael J. Fox's location in time.
Member since Sep 2007
8738 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 4:21 am to
I think, at this point, he just needs to go anywhere else. He's not terrible. He has no confidence, and his team sucks the purest form of arse. Get him away from those people. Some of those fans take pure joy from telling Americans how terrible their players are, which is fine because at least our "awful" players can get us out of the group at a World Cup. Group of Death? No problem. Maybe we could mentor them or something.
Posted by Dalosaqy
I can't quite re
Member since Dec 2007
12314 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:30 am to
quote:

Some of those fans take pure joy from telling Americans how terrible their players are

Do tell. Some of those joyful fans are regulars on this board.
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28453 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 12:07 pm to
Greg Seltzer has had some good pieces on Jozy lately. They are long, but if you care about Jozy and his predicament they are worth the read.

Here he does a breakdown of why Sunderland blows. This was written the game after they got thrashed by Southampton, 8-0.

LINK
quote:

This is the Sunderland line-up today. Jozy Altidore is on the bench.

Mannone, Vergini, van Aanholt, O’Shea (c), Brown, Cattermole, Larsson, Rodwell, Buckley, Johnson, Fletcher.

This was the Sunderland line-up last weekend... ya know... the one beat 8-0 by Southampton.

Mannone, Vergini, van Aanholt, O'Shea (c), Brown, Cattermole, Larsson, Gomez, Buckley, Wickham, Fletcher.

So, basically, his team gets shellacked and heads are gonna roll, and then he replaces two attackers from the blowout loss. With two players (Johnson, Rodwell) who were amazingly on for five of those goals in just a half hour. Nobody sits in defense. The precious protected midfielders Cattermole and Larsson remain as starters. Buckley, with exactly zero goals or assists in 401 EPL minutes this season remains. Do bear in mind this is a team that has been shut out in four of six league games and conceded multiple goals in half of their eight matches to date. This is a team that cannot (or will not) hold possession, crosses less than four times a game despite overly relying on set pieces for offense and has attempted exactly three through balls all season. Then they all wonder why the strike force has only rung the bell in one of eight games.

Here is the kicker: the best team they have played so far this term is probably Spurs.

I said it last season and I will say it again. Gus Poyet either has no idea what to do here or he is too led by the nose about what others think to do it. Some will say he saved them last season, some will say it was Wickham, and credit goes to the manager for that. Pfft. The sudden desperation of hanging on to paychecks and the midfield deciding to work for the team finally saved them last season. It says here Poyet will not be around for another salvage mission.

I am sure some will think this rant is all about Altidore. In reality, it barely is.


Here is his statistical analysis on Altidore's performance from last week.

quote:

Jozy Altidore got his first league start for Sunderland yesterday, and as is sometimes the case, I broke out the pen and pad to notch up a variety of stats.

Let's just end the non-existent suspense and blurt out that Altidore rang up a grand total of zero in the following categories: shots/shots on target, area entries (via dribble or pass completed to teammate), shot assists, and most annoyingly, defenders beaten on the dribble. No, I do not count the nutmeg on Touré because he did not keep the rock from it. He also only managed a single high-pressure harassment of note.

That may all sound entirely dire for the US striker, but do factor in that he was picked out with a pass facing the area exactly once, found in the area with a pass zero times and never the end target of combo play (for the record, he was the hyphen between give and go on three occasions). Altidore also worked just 70 minutes before departing, and spent the last 10 of them out of left wing.

Still, it remains readily apparent that he is probably the biggest team player on Sunderland, and that he needs to dial that typically admirable trait back a few notches if he ever expects to score in their shirt. Sure, most of their good moves and threatening poses from yesterday came through his grunt work in some way. But he could have had two passes facing the area, but inexplicably dummied one when you would imagine he'd simply let rip first-time if in a USMNT shirt. This came late in his shift, when a goal might have won the day.

Look, he doesn't need to turn into Connor Wickham, who usually seems oblivious to the fact he has nine field mates out there. But there is a lot of space to explore between there and how he plays now. The time for proving he can do the heavy lifting, defender-occupying and space-granting for his team in the Prem is well done. The time to prove he can take over a big moment has long since passed and we're still waiting. C'mon Jozy... unleash the Kraken on these fools already.

Tough touches
First half: Successful on 7 of 10
Second half: 1 of 2

These count the times he receives with a man draped on him, in a crowd or in the act of a physical motion that makes corralling a pass difficult. Three out of the four Altidore fails here came on what I have identified as the biggest hole in his first touch game: incoming balls that bounce upward to waist-level or higher. He tends to try to baby the pass, letting the ball attack him rather than the preferred other way around. But overall, it was a decent enough game in this area.

Total Turnovers
First half: 4
Second half: 3

This category includes all wayward touches and dribble flubs. It does not include fouls, offside flags or incomplete passes. Handling tough touches is great; it's even better when you don't flub a few easier ones. Altidore did, and he also had a few weak dribble attempts. I get that he had an unusually high number of midfield touches on Saturday and that he was often alone up top, but it was still too many fumbles. In fact, that sum of seven was three more total turnovers than he'd suffered in his last 88 minutes of EPL action (and three of those opponents were Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal). Yeah, definitely too much.

Aerial Duels
First half: Won 5 of 6
Second half: 3 of 3

None of that is a typo. Yes, Mr. "Can't Play in the Air" himself won eight of nine air challenges. He routinely took the Reds center back duo of Škrtel (50% air duels won) and Touré (14%) for a ride in the unfriendly skies. Once, he flashed through the both of them to complete a perfectly-weighted lateral flick that sprung Sunderland into attack (well... as much as they can "spring" into attack, that is). FYI: Despite each having a height advantage and a large minutes played edge on Altidore, Fletcher and Wickham are each averaging just under three air wins per appearance.

Hold-Up PlaysFirst half: 10
Second half: 2

For me to scratch one down here, Altidore must a) have back at least somewhat to goal & b) he must complete the pass portion of the play to keep possession going. And it cannot be a positive pass, either; if he accepts with back to goal, spins and releases a teammate forward, I do not count it in this column. Long story short regarding Saturday, without Altidore's ace hold-up work, Sunderland do not come close to the possession edge they held for the first 55 minutes of this game. And amazingly, only one of these plays came during the opening nine minutes of both halves. I swear, sometimes, it seems like this Sunderland team doesn't realize how to play this game until they accidentally do something standard that works.

Pressure Valve Plays
First half: 3
Second half: 1

This tallies the plays when Altidore helped Sunderland out of the back and across midfield. And it is much the same concept as using your striker for hold-up work, just not as far up the field. Apparently, Sunderland have yet to truly stumble onto this tactical opportunity. Half of these four came when they lobbed a long ball he had little chance of corralling and did it anyway. It has been a year-and-a-half and they still cannot figure out to hit him in stride with passes along the ground. Anywhere on the field.
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
64387 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 1:25 pm to
quote:


So, basically, his team gets shellacked and heads are gonna roll, and then he replaces two attackers from the blowout loss. With two players (Johnson, Rodwell) who were amazingly on for five of those goals in just a half hour. Nobody sits in defense. 


There were no heads TO roll. Coates was injured at cb and he's crap, Jones was injured at rb, we only had one lb at the time in PVA . We were playing the only healthy defensive players on squad who have been very good in every match but that one and city. Giacherinni was injured in midfield and Alvarez was injured midfield/LW.

So from his opening paragraph I tend to tune the guy out a bit as there were literally no other options besides the changes made and Jozy.

I want to see Jozy succeed with us more than anyone on on this board. I truly think Poyet 's most frustrating trait is his unwillingness to change his 4-3-3 where he plays a second striker out left. I know he wanted borini badly for that role but he didn't get him so I wish he'd move more to a 442 or even diamond which clearly fits our current players much better. Jozy, Wickham, and fletcher would all benefit from another guy up top greatly.

This post was edited on 12/14/14 at 1:30 pm
Posted by mynamebowl
Houston
Member since Jun 2012
1712 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 2:44 pm to
quote:

I truly think Poyet 's most frustrating trait is his unwillingness to change his 4-3-3 where he plays a second striker out left.


I haven't watched enough of Sunderland's games to make any kind of judgement on Poyet as a manager. But it does explain maybe why Jozy isn't getting any kind of consistent minutes. Well, and because he doesn't score goals anymore. But he's not really the type of striker you need at the top of a 4-3-3. Or on the left side of a 3 forward line, for that matter. Are Connor Wickham and Fletcher really that much better options though?
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
64387 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 4:05 pm to
I'm probably not the one to ask as I've only become truly addicted to soccer so nice 2010 WC, to my eye though (who has watched 95%of Sunderland matches since it moved to nbc) they could all use a complimentary striker.

Wickham has the highest ceiling IMO and best combination of speed and power, he also never seems to lack for confidence. He just signed for 4 more years this week so hopefully he stops trying to go 1 on 11.

Fletcher is by far the most technically sound of the three but also lacks the physical gifts of of the other two. I really think combining him with either of the others up top is our best bet and having either Jozy or Wickham cone in late would add fresh legs.

I was honestly loving Jozy coming in around 60 min mark earlier in year and going against tired legs. He seemed confident and was making great runs. Not sure why poyet got away from that....
Posted by S
RIP Wayde
Member since Jan 2007
155931 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 4:56 pm to
Wickham/fletcher is a very viable tandem on paper, fletcher has a tough time staying fit and wickham aside from last seasons finish has not really ever been on a consistent run of form.

I think its ok for us to admit that jozy just isnt good enough to play in this league. McBride was good, donovan was a good fit at everton, maybe it would be different on another team but i doubt it. I want to see him do well in england but at this point i cant see him ever finding a spot on a team that isnt in teh hull/burnley realm. Sunderland is decent club but unless he is willing to stay and continue to wait(fletch will be due for another injury at some point) he probably wont get a good chance.

Sometimes you need a chance and/or change. Mikael forssel couldnt buy a game at chelsea then crushed it at birmingham. Robbie fowler was 'God' at liverpool but sucked at leeds and city. diego forlan had zero confidence at man utd and won the golden boot like a year later. You just never know sometimes.

As for the redditards that criticize those players, its just like the retards that post here on that SEC Board. Just ignore them and sleep well knowing you are smarter than them.

Tl, dr. Lets just go with Jozy is a "bad fit" at sunderland. Hopefully he turns it around because i want to see him do well in the epl.
Posted by Sheep
Neither here nor there
Member since Jun 2007
19537 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 5:37 pm to
quote:

before he's no longer in his prime


Athletes usually hit their prime at 27(ish).

Jozy needs to come to MLS, score goals and frick bitches.

frick Jurgen and his "you're better off in Norway or the Bundesliga VII Youth Reserves" arse.

He'd be great in Houston, with Boniek Garcia on one side and THE WORLD'S GREATEST LEFT FOOT on the other.

They've made Will Bruin's scrub arse look great the past two seasons - and when Bruin went down, Mark Sherrod looked great for a few games.
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
64387 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 6:36 pm to
Well said.
Posted by TheZaba
FL
Member since Oct 2008
6183 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 6:52 pm to
quote:

Jozy needs to come to MLS
That would have been nice to see him in NY pairing with BWP while also getting to be around Henry

I really don't watch enough MLS though to know where he'd fit the best.

Would back to the Netherlands be too much of a step backwards for his confidence? Is he technical enough to make it in Germany?
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28453 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 7:01 pm to
Jozy should go to PSV or a team in France imo. What's off about his time at AZ is that he actually played up top or put left in a 443 and looked great. From his work with the USMNT we know he has the potential to do well against top sides, but the fit at The Sunderland and Hulls of the world isn't what Jozy needs.
Posted by oauron
Birmingham, AL
Member since Sep 2011
14513 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 9:14 pm to
I would love Jozy on the dynamo. Barnes and Altidore would wreck havoc.
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28453 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 9:20 pm to
Jozy is pretty committed to staying in Europe, from every interview I've read of his. That said, baby Brad seemed set on Europe as well until a payday he couldn't refuse came his way.
Posted by oauron
Birmingham, AL
Member since Sep 2011
14513 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 9:24 pm to
Houston would never spend the $ on it, and I'm not expecting it at all.

Do hope he goes to Ligue 1 or really just a situation he can find a consistent role.
Posted by mynamebowl
Houston
Member since Jun 2012
1712 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 9:28 pm to
quote:

baby Brad seemed set on Europe as well until a payday he couldn't refuse came his way.


I still have a feeling he will go back to Europe, maybe sooner rather than later.
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28453 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 10:23 pm to
If TFC keep imploding... then I guess it's a possibility. That said, TFC/MLS paid a hefty fee to get him, so I'm sure they don't let him go easy. I wish he had stayed in Europe, but I understand not being able to turn down that kind of money.
Posted by Crede15
Member since Jun 2009
17214 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 10:52 pm to
The depressing thing about watching Jozy isn't the occasional bad miss, it's his egregiously bad movement. It's just abysmal. There's a reason he doesn't score goals and its not the convenient lack of service argument.

He just needs to come home or go back to Holland.
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28453 posts
Posted on 12/14/14 at 11:12 pm to
His movement was actually very good when he was with AZ. I'm not sure why he's regressed so much in that regard, but I've noticed it too and it frustrates the hell out of me. That said, Sunderland execute very few crosses into the box and close to zero through balls. I'm pretty sure I have more soccer acumen than the majority of Sunderland's midfield, though.
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