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re: CFB Playoff: Commitiee vs BCS rankings
Posted on 7/23/14 at 3:43 am to RTR America
Posted on 7/23/14 at 3:43 am to RTR America
quote:
If it is only conference champions then what's the incentive to schedule any team outside of the power conference in OOC games?
that's a great question. personally I think the committee would do a lot to preserve the value of the regular season and increase their own credibility if they more transparently spelled out their criteria. it seems clear that they will emphasize things like winning your conference but it is not required... meaning there may be some possibility of winning an at large berth but the criteria for this are nebulous.
I think emphasizing that any team entering the four team playoff had to have at least one and preferably two or three quality out of conference opponents on their resume would be a very logical answer to your question. I also think it would do a lot to encourage more outstanding out of conference games - the number of which has drastically shrunk over the last three plus decades as the number of required in conference games has increased. Right now people seriously argue a team playing a single (typically mediocre) out of conference team from a BCS conference has done their due diligence RE: OOC scheduling. That is really a joke if you look at what college football schedules once looked like.
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Posted on 7/23/14 at 10:49 am to ULSU
quote:
This committee is bullshite. If the SEC were to have 3 of the top 4 teams, there is ZERO chance all three would get in. i think there will be a huge bias against even 2 tams getting in from one conference.
This is the problem no matter what. If I had asked you previous to bowl games in 2006 if Michigan and OSU should have been involved in the playoff, most would have said yes. Bowl games proved otherwise.
I think you have to only take conference champs. If you aren't your conference champ, do you have a legitimate gripe about being a national champ?
I know home field sometimes screws teams (going on the road to top 25 opponents can ruin perfect records) but that is just how it is.
No one can tell me, based on the eye test, that this team at 11-1 is obviously better than this conference champ at 12-1. The team at 11-1 may have 1st rounders on every level, but less talented teams beat more talented teams on a weekly basis in the sport, so I don't know how you weight it. It should be weighed in, but I think conference title has to mean more than "they have a ton of talent"
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:14 am to Buckeye06
I'm just guessing but I think a committee may select a conference champ over the other for a last spot.
Wierd years like 2007 where every team loses 2 games could be an exception if a 1 loss team is available.
It's not popular but 2011 is another year. Oklahoma State can be placed ahead of Alabama and a committee would still need to find 2 more teams to force them out.
If there is a loophole it WILL eventually be found.
Lets say Auburn and LSU both have 1 loss in the future. Auburn beats LSU so they go to Atlanta while LSU is finished at11-1. Auburn loses to Florida which is 10-2. Losses to LSU and Florida State.
Either no team from the SEC would go with 11-1 LSU available or 11-2 Florida would go over 11-1 LSU which beat them.
Its a hypothetical but I couldn't support a system like that.
Wierd years like 2007 where every team loses 2 games could be an exception if a 1 loss team is available.
It's not popular but 2011 is another year. Oklahoma State can be placed ahead of Alabama and a committee would still need to find 2 more teams to force them out.
If there is a loophole it WILL eventually be found.
Lets say Auburn and LSU both have 1 loss in the future. Auburn beats LSU so they go to Atlanta while LSU is finished at11-1. Auburn loses to Florida which is 10-2. Losses to LSU and Florida State.
Either no team from the SEC would go with 11-1 LSU available or 11-2 Florida would go over 11-1 LSU which beat them.
Its a hypothetical but I couldn't support a system like that.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 3:47 pm to LukeSidewalker
quote:
Its a hypothetical but I couldn't support a system like that.
If you work hard enough you can come up with hypotheticals where there's no good representative from the SEC. That really doesn't mean the system is broken, more likely it means the teams which might have potentially won a championship lost games they knew they had to win.
In your scenario my suspicion is FSU is the only team mentioned who really deserves a shot at a national championship. Florida did what they fairly needed to do to win the SEC but were probably shown in their head to head with FSU to be undeserving of a NC. Similar examples might be 2006 LSU, 2006 Michigan, 2001 LSU, etc.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 4:10 pm to molsusports
I agree there is no perfect system. I just wouldnt support a system that doesn't try to take the best teams. No sport at the high school, college, or professional level picks exclusively from conference champs to build a playoff.
Not a single person gave a frick UCONN won it all in hoops as a 7 seed over 8 seed Kentucky.
Vandy didnt win the SEC regular season or tournament and nobody cared. The CWS wasnt ruined.
The same thing happened in Softball with Florida winning it all while Georgia won the tournament and Bama won the regular season. This same thing happened in Gymnastics as the lady gators won it all without winning the SEC.
I get some people want college football to be different but I dont think some of the lesser conferences should get a 2 or 3 loss team in over a 1 loss at large team. I will say the 1 loss at large doesn't even have to be an SEC team as long as we TRY to take the best teams.
Not a single person gave a frick UCONN won it all in hoops as a 7 seed over 8 seed Kentucky.
Vandy didnt win the SEC regular season or tournament and nobody cared. The CWS wasnt ruined.
The same thing happened in Softball with Florida winning it all while Georgia won the tournament and Bama won the regular season. This same thing happened in Gymnastics as the lady gators won it all without winning the SEC.
I get some people want college football to be different but I dont think some of the lesser conferences should get a 2 or 3 loss team in over a 1 loss at large team. I will say the 1 loss at large doesn't even have to be an SEC team as long as we TRY to take the best teams.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 4:47 pm to LukeSidewalker
quote:
a system that doesn't try to take the best teams.
a system which tries to use objective qualifications (rather than eyeball tests designed to favor more popular teams) does this by definition
I don't have a problem with your critique of other sports where the regular season is devalued but I completely disagree with your argument that a "best team" is something that should be subjectively determined rather than based on transparent qualifications. In fact, the best team arguments typically devalue the regular season.
The traditional problem with college football has been its skew towards popularity contests favoring name teams at the expense of fairness or real attempts at objectivity.
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 7/23/14 at 5:45 pm to molsusports
By best team I only meant a 3 loss team getting in over a 1 loss team. It doesn't get more devalued than that.
Also the SEC is a 14 team league that will likely carry around 6 top 25 teams.
The Big 12 (-2) has 4 fewer and less competition for equal representation in champions only bracket.
I understand the term "best" can be interpreted in different ways I just feel 2 teams from the same conference can be included in a 4 team playoff. It's less likely to get a split national championship(AP) this way.
Also the SEC is a 14 team league that will likely carry around 6 top 25 teams.
The Big 12 (-2) has 4 fewer and less competition for equal representation in champions only bracket.
I understand the term "best" can be interpreted in different ways I just feel 2 teams from the same conference can be included in a 4 team playoff. It's less likely to get a split national championship(AP) this way.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 6:09 pm to LukeSidewalker
Hopefully, the rankings will determine the field and the Committee is just for show. I see nothing wrong with just taking the top 4 teams in the polls.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 6:19 pm to LukeSidewalker
quote:
By best team I only meant a 3 loss team getting in over a 1 loss team. It doesn't get more devalued than that.
I share your concern about a multiple loss team being given a pass or automatic entry but I doubt you share my concerns about teams being fairly disqualified by losing in conference games. If you take 2006 for example LSU and Michigan were fairly disqualified from consideration because of the regular season. You really can't make a good argument for both valuing the regular season AND wanting to include the "best" (subjectivity emphasized) team in a four team playoff -typically the best team argument is an argument against the validity of regular season results and a desire to give a favored team a pass.
The AP can pull whatever shenanigans they like in their efforts to promote themselves as relevant and prop up their preseason predictions. They will become recognized as progressively less relevant over time.
To me there's little question a playoff is better when it honors regular season results and it is seldom that an at large bid better reflects that than more objective criteria.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 6:30 pm to Dr Rosenrosen
The main thing I DO NOT WANT.
A split national championship. If they take a lower ranked team outside the top 5 just because I think its possible. The AP isn't obligated to vote the winner #1. The last thing we need is the AP to select a champion that some or potentially most consider more deserving.
The SEC is an awesome league with 5 different BCS champs. A 7-1 record against others in last few title games. Even after those 5 Georgia has been close on 3 separate occasions. 4 more teams have finished in the top 5 recently with A@M, Arky, USCe, and Mizzou (twice). Thats 10 teams that have played at the highest level in the last few years. It's part of the reason a lot of people consider a 1 loss non conference champion worthy of competing in the playoff.
A split national championship. If they take a lower ranked team outside the top 5 just because I think its possible. The AP isn't obligated to vote the winner #1. The last thing we need is the AP to select a champion that some or potentially most consider more deserving.
The SEC is an awesome league with 5 different BCS champs. A 7-1 record against others in last few title games. Even after those 5 Georgia has been close on 3 separate occasions. 4 more teams have finished in the top 5 recently with A@M, Arky, USCe, and Mizzou (twice). Thats 10 teams that have played at the highest level in the last few years. It's part of the reason a lot of people consider a 1 loss non conference champion worthy of competing in the playoff.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 6:44 pm to LukeSidewalker
I don't think the Coaches are obligated to vote the playoff champion #1 in that poll, either.
The odds of a split title under this new system are probably very slim, but it could happen if the committee reaches and takes the #7 or 8 team in the polls.
The odds of a split title under this new system are probably very slim, but it could happen if the committee reaches and takes the #7 or 8 team in the polls.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 6:54 pm to Dr Rosenrosen
it could easily happen if a name team is ranked in the top five and a lesser name team with a lower national ranking wins the four team tournament.
keep in mind the AP desperately WANTS a split national championship. It is the only thing that will make them seem relevant or worth talking about with first the BCS era and now a four team playoff.
keep in mind the AP desperately WANTS a split national championship. It is the only thing that will make them seem relevant or worth talking about with first the BCS era and now a four team playoff.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 7:11 pm to molsusports
The AP is relevant just by your mentioning them. They are relevant by the length they've had a poll. You may not agree with their poll or recognize it, but some do. Thereby, they are relevant.
The AP stood its ground in 03 I don't have an issue with their poll.
The AP stood its ground in 03 I don't have an issue with their poll.
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 7:13 pm
Posted on 7/23/14 at 7:27 pm to sms151t
I mentioned them in response to another person expressing concern about them... much in the same way I'd tell someone I'm not concerned with dick cancer if they brought it up.
The AP at the end of the season in college football will eventually be what it is in college basketball: an interesting historical footnote.
It is being slowly rendered irrelevant in the eyes of the public because the championship will be awarded based upon results on the field played under clearly understood rules. This process began with the BCS (which the AP belatedly realized and withdrew). The AP represents the opposite of all of those things and an easy example of the corruption and unfairness that have been part of college football's opinion poll system for awarding national championships
The AP at the end of the season in college football will eventually be what it is in college basketball: an interesting historical footnote.
It is being slowly rendered irrelevant in the eyes of the public because the championship will be awarded based upon results on the field played under clearly understood rules. This process began with the BCS (which the AP belatedly realized and withdrew). The AP represents the opposite of all of those things and an easy example of the corruption and unfairness that have been part of college football's opinion poll system for awarding national championships
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