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re: True or False re: Truman dropping the A-bomb on Japan:

Posted on 7/22/14 at 8:19 am to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422561 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 8:19 am to
i love my CTs

i even gave props to a movie about them last night (everyone should watch it. it's legit good for an indie thriller)
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
56011 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 8:43 am to
quote:

Dude a terrorist attack started WW I.



true terroism started WW I my point was that the face of warfare has changed in the last 70 years.
Posted by Tigah in the ATL
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2005
27539 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 8:55 am to
quote:

True or False
reductionist thinking is a poor way to deal with such a complex topic.
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
56011 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 9:06 am to
quote:

reductionist thinking is a poor way to deal with such a complex topic.

Posted by TX Tiger
at home
Member since Jan 2004
35632 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 11:06 am to
quote:

I find it interesting that the dumber people are, the more they thirst for war.




would that explain why Japan bombed Perl Harbor? I guess.
You keep guessing, I'll take the word of former Secretary of State and Secretary of War Henry Stimson who said,
quote:

"“The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves."


Economic sanctions are what caused Japan to attack. Afterwords Stimson confessed that
quote:

“my first feeling was of relief ... that a crisis had come in a way which would unite all our people."



ETA: Sounds eerily similar to 9/11. In fact, the neocons wrote in the PNAC document that in order to acheive their goals of controlling the natural resources in the ME, an event would be helpful, such as (and I quote) "a new Pearl Harbor."
This post was edited on 7/22/14 at 11:25 am
Posted by TX Tiger
at home
Member since Jan 2004
35632 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 11:21 am to
quote:

How many people have been slaughtered in war since the bomb?


a lot fewer, per capita (obviously), than at any other time in history Pax Americana is a real thing.
Major U.S. Military Operations Since WWII

1950-1953 Korean War
Communist North Korea, supported by China, invades non-communist South Korea. UN forces, principally made up of U.S. troops, fight to protect South Korea. The Korean War is the first armed conflict in the global struggle between democracy and communism, called the Cold War.

1961 Cuba
The U.S. orchestrates the ill-fated Bay of Pigs invasion, an unsuccessful attempt by Cuban exiles to overthrow Fidel Castro's communist regime in Cuba.

1961-1973 Vietnam War
In 1955, communist North Vietnam invades non-communist South Vietnam in an attempt to unify the country and impose communist rule. The United States joins the war on the side of South Vietnam in 1961, but withdraws combat troops in 1973. In 1975 North Vietnam succeeds in taking control of South Vietnam. The Vietnam War is the longest conflict the U.S. ever fought and the first war it lost.

1965 Dominican Republic
U.S. president Lyndon Johnson sends marines and troops to quash a leftist uprising; he fears the Dominican Republic might follow in the footsteps of Cuba and turn communist.

1982 Lebanon
U.S. troops form part of a multinational peacekeeping force to help the fragile Lebanese government maintain power in the politically volatile country. In 1983 241 U.S. Marines and 60 French soldiers are killed by a truck bomb. The multinational force withdraws in 1984.

1983 Grenada
U.S. President Ronald Reagan invades the Caribbean island nation of Grenada to overthrow its socialist government, which has close ties with Cuba. A U.S. peace-keeping force remains until 1985.

1989 Panama
U.S. President George H. W. Bush invades Panama and overthrows Panamanian dictator and drug-smuggler Manuel Noriega. Noriega is later tried and convicted on a number of charges, and is imprisoned in the United States.

1991 Gulf War (Kuwait and Iraq)
Iraq invades the country of Kuwait. The Gulf War begins and ends swiftly when a U.S.-led multinational force comes to Kuwait's aid and expels dictator Saddam Hussein's forces.

1993 Somalia
A U.S.-led multinational force attempts to restore order to war-torn Somalia so that food can be delivered and distributed within the famine-stricken country.

1994 Haiti
After Haiti's democratically elected president Jean-Bertrand Aristide is ousted in a coup in 1991, a U.S. invasion three years later restores him to power.

1994-1995 Bosnia
During the Bosnian civil war, which begins shortly after the country declares independence in 1992, the U.S. launches air strikes on Bosnia to prevent ethnic cleansing. It becomes a part of NATO's peacekeeping force in the region.

1999 Kosovo
Yugoslavia's province of Kosovo erupts in war in the spring of 1999. A U.S.-led NATO force intervenes with air strikes after Slobodan Milosevic's Serbian forces uproot the population and embark on a plan of ethnic cleansing of Kosovo's ethnic Albanian population.

2001—2014 Afghanistan

2003—2010 Iraq War

The millions slaughtered in these major US military operations don't agree, and neither do I, that dropping the bomb provided long-term peace.

Posted by Huey Lewis
BR
Member since Oct 2013
4653 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

1. Truman's decision to drop the atom bomb is the primary (or most significant) reason that the West & Russia didn't battle each other immediately (or very soon) after the end of WWII. Said another way, it's the direct reason the Cold War was a cold war and not WWIII (or WWII+).


Probably not primary or most significant, but possibly a factor.


quote:

2. The existence of atomic weapons have had the greatest impact on maintaining relative peace throughout the developed world over the last 70 years.



Who can really say? What are we defining as relative peace? The absence of a WWIII?


quote:

3. The existence of atomic weapons have saved more lives through fears of MAD and subsequent avoidance of direct conflicts than they have taken through (a) them being dropped, or (b) proxy wars.


Again, who can really say?


quote:

4. On balance, dropping the bomb was the right call by Truman for the sake of long-term peace.


I don't think so.
Posted by DanTiger
Somewhere in Luziana
Member since Sep 2004
9480 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

1. Truman's decision to drop the atom bomb is the primary (or most significant) reason that the West & Russia didn't battle each other immediately (or very soon) after the end of WWII. Said another way, it's the direct reason the Cold War was a cold war and not WWIII (or WWII+).


1) False. Both we and the Soviets were war weary, especially the Soviets, and we were both broke. there would have been no funding or public support on either side.

2) True

3) Don't know

4) Absolutely the right call but it had nothing to do with long-term peace.
Posted by CptRusty
Basket of Deplorables
Member since Aug 2011
11740 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 2:58 pm to
quote:

1. Truman's decision to drop the atom bomb is the primary (or most significant) reason that the West & Russia didn't battle each other immediately (or very soon) after the end of WWII. Said another way, it's the direct reason the Cold War was a cold war and not WWIII (or WWII+).


True.

quote:

2. The existence of atomic weapons have had the greatest impact on maintaining relative peace throughout the developed world over the last 70 years.


IMO true.

quote:

3. The existence of atomic weapons have saved more lives through fears of MAD and subsequent avoidance of direct conflicts than they have taken through (a) them being dropped, or (b) proxy wars.


IMO true

quote:

4. On balance, dropping the bomb was the right call by Truman for the sake of long-term peace.


I say true, but only partially for the sake of long term peace. I believe it was the right call for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is bringing the war to an immediate end and saving hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American and Japanese lives. Whether or not "long term peace" has been achieved is debatable.
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