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Message
Problems with Tula Ammo?
Posted on 6/29/14 at 8:22 pm
Posted on 6/29/14 at 8:22 pm
Never had any problems with my DPMS A2 Classic. Today I loaded Tula Ammo (steel case) and it acted like a single shot. Sometimes it with fire 2-3 round with no issue, but mostly I had to pull the charging handle after each shot to load another shell. I know it wasn't the magazine, because I tried 3 different types. Also the Tula Ammo fired fine from my Windham Weaponary SRC and PSA.
Could the DPMS just be sensitive to the Tula Ammo? I didn't have any other ammo to try out, but as mentioned before I've never had an issue with the gun.
Shells ejected fine just wouldn't reload (consistently) and the bolt was coming forward just not picking up another round.
Could the DPMS just be sensitive to the Tula Ammo? I didn't have any other ammo to try out, but as mentioned before I've never had an issue with the gun.
Shells ejected fine just wouldn't reload (consistently) and the bolt was coming forward just not picking up another round.
This post was edited on 6/29/14 at 8:27 pm
Posted on 6/29/14 at 9:16 pm to AUtigR24
I think that stuff has weak primers. Might be the action isn't strong enough to fire them.
I don't know much about ARs since I just got my first one not too long ago but that was some responses from another forum.
I don't know much about ARs since I just got my first one not too long ago but that was some responses from another forum.
Posted on 6/29/14 at 9:16 pm to AUtigR24
Tul Ammo, they make great stuff. Frankly their primers are sought after in the reloading community.
Your DPMS sucks
Your DPMS sucks
Posted on 6/29/14 at 9:24 pm to KingRanch
Lulz, I did some research and it seems it's not the steel case it's their very underpowered loads that cause the issue.
Posted on 6/29/14 at 9:43 pm to AUtigR24
Sounds like you have some underpowered ammo. Not enough gas pressure to force the bolt carrier back enough.
Is the rifle you are having trouble with this ammo different from the other? Carbine, rifle, midlength? Heavy, light buffers? All can play a part as gas pressure is different in gas port location and buffer weight can affect cycling.
Tula primers are legit. I use them in several loads.
Oh and don't shoot steel commie shite through the AR.
I would bet the best fix in this case, assuming you want to keep shooting this ammo, is a lighter buffer.
Is the rifle you are having trouble with this ammo different from the other? Carbine, rifle, midlength? Heavy, light buffers? All can play a part as gas pressure is different in gas port location and buffer weight can affect cycling.
Tula primers are legit. I use them in several loads.
Oh and don't shoot steel commie shite through the AR.
I would bet the best fix in this case, assuming you want to keep shooting this ammo, is a lighter buffer.
This post was edited on 6/29/14 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 6/29/14 at 9:45 pm to H.M. Murdock
quote:
Tula primers are legit.
Yep I knew I didn't know what I was talking about.
Posted on 6/29/14 at 9:54 pm to AUtigR24
A long read, but a good read. This should explain it all
quote:
First, it is NOT caused by a "lacquer coating" cooking off and leaving its residue in the chamber. If you don't believe me, get a spent shell and hit it with a blowtorch. Nothing's coming off of that sucker. If you've bought your ammo in the past few years, it doesn't even have lacquer on it.
Second, many people believe it is because the steel expands, and, being less flexible than brass, wedges itself in the chamber. That's not true either. But, steel being less flexible that brass does contribute to the problem.
The answer is simpler (and fortunately more correctable) than either of those.
Steel doesn't expand like brass does in the chamber. This allows a slight gap around the cartridge case upon firing. That gap admits powder residue and carbon into the chamber, which begins building up on the sides. Pretty soon, the dimensions of the chamber are too small to allow the casing to move freely in and out. The next time the bolt slams a round into the chamber, it wedges there, unable to be moved without physical intervention.
"Well," you might say, "the 7.62 x 39 rounds that I shoot are steel cased, and they don't have that problem". No, they don't. But, it is not because the blowback of residue into the chamber isn't happening. It is because of the shape of the round itself. The sides of the 7.62 x 39 are tapered enough that they can still overcome friction with the sides of the chamber. The .223 is far straighter, and so it is far more difficult for the extractor to overcome the frictional forces of the now smaller chamber that has a good hold on the straight walls of the shell case.
This post was edited on 6/29/14 at 9:56 pm
Posted on 6/29/14 at 9:59 pm to Shexter
quote:
Once, while in the presence of a buddy of mine, I experienced the problem and he said, "You need to run a little brass in every mag to keep it cleaned out."
That didn't make sense to me. How did brass keep the action clean? Besides, common knowledge was that you never mix steel and brass when shooting...that mixing the two would only make this problem worse.
Then I read this article on the Box O' Truth LINK about steel case and brass cased ammo. Although their hypothesis confirmed my friend's statement that brass ammo could help clean the chamber, they stopped short of recommending (or figuring out) that running steel and brass together can make a gun run more reliably.
I figured it was up to me to test it.
I started by cleaning the chamber thoroughly and soaking it down with CLP. I then loaded my mags with one round of brass case for every 9 of steel. Then, I headed to the range.
Fully expecting to get a stoppage before the end of mag number two, the AR kept eating the steel case well past that point. The brass coming out eventually carried a considerable amount of black deposit on the outside of it. It was rock hard and couldn't be scraped off with a fingernail. I did a variety of shooting, including slow firing (shooting once every 20 seconds or so), sustained slow firing (shooting once every five seconds), fast firing (shooting as fast as I could pull the trigger) and even some bump firing (near automatic rates of fire).
Posted on 6/29/14 at 10:03 pm to Shexter
While a good read, the problem OP is facing is one relating to gas pressure, buffer weight and bolt carrier movement.
Posted on 6/29/14 at 10:29 pm to H.M. Murdock
The DPMS A2 Class is 20" M16 style not 16" carbine like the other 2 rifles I was shooting.
Posted on 6/29/14 at 10:35 pm to AUtigR24
That seems to be the issue, the ammo is likely a bit underpowered thus the rifle length gas system is giving you problems. Well, not the gas system, the lack of pressure from the ammo to push the bolt carrier back.
You can,
1. Try a lighter buffer in the rifle which will allow the bolt carrier to move with less pressure
2. Use different ammo.
You can,
1. Try a lighter buffer in the rifle which will allow the bolt carrier to move with less pressure
2. Use different ammo.
Posted on 6/29/14 at 10:39 pm to H.M. Murdock
Just use different ammo. Any time I see AR's hanging up at the range, first question I ask is "are you using Wolf or Tul?"
I avoid anything steel. I'd rather brass hitting steel than steel on steel.
I avoid anything steel. I'd rather brass hitting steel than steel on steel.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 9:09 am to Shexter
quote:
Just use different ammo. Any time I see AR's hanging up at the range, first question I ask is "are you using Wolf or Tul?" I avoid anything steel. I'd rather brass hitting steel than steel on steel.
yep...
Posted on 6/30/14 at 9:40 am to cgrand
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