re: Is Shaq or Duncan a top-5 all time NBA player?

First of all Magic is definitely not #2.

Second I would argue Shaq as high as #1

why do people put bill russel in top 5

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Anyone shooting 52.7% from the line over a career should not be argued as a top 5 player no matter how good he was in the post. I am not knocking Shaq (he is one of the most dominating players of all time) but to be deemed a top five all time player, you should at least be able to shoot a free throw.

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Shaq made them when it mattered.

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People forget that Chamberlain was 7'1" and played at 275lb. While in college he was also on the track team. He ran 100yd in 10.9 seconds, shot putted 56 feet, triple jumped over 50 feet and was a champion high jumper. The rules of basketball were changed at both the collegiate and NBA level to reduce his domination.

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He also banged over 20,000 women.

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People forget that Chamberlain was 7'1" and played at 275lb. While in college he was also on the track team. He ran 100yd in 10.9 seconds, shot putted 56 feet, triple jumped over 50 feet and was a champion high jumper. The rules of basketball were changed at both the collegiate and NBA level to reduce his domination.

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Wilt wasn't 275 pounds until later in his career. He was a beanpole during much of it.

Secondly, take some of his "feats" with a grain of salt.

It's also been said he could bench press over 500 pounds and snatch a quarter off the top of the backboard.

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I'm no Kobe fan, but this is just incorrect. He averaged 21, 29, and 26 ppg in those playoff runs and 32 in the year they lost to be Pistons. He was definitely a huge factor in those titles.

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His 32 ppg average in the 2004 playoffs is precisely why they lost that Finals. He decided it was his turn to shine and killed the team chemistry as well as ruining a great potential swan song for Malone.

Kind of funny how in their 5 year run (2000-2002 and 2004), the only time they lost a Finals was when Kobe tried to be the Alpha.

Kobe's averages in the Finals:
22.6 ppg
38% shooting on ~23 shots/game
2.8 TOTAL rebounds per game
1.2 assists to turnover ratio
17% 3 point shooting

On the other hand, Shaq:
26.6 PPG
63% shooting on ~17 shots/game
10.8 Total Rebounds/game

Kobe cost them that Finals on his own. It was amazing how bad he was.

Game 1 loss = 27 shots for Kobe and 34 for the rest of the starters. The only game they won, game 2, Kobe shot around 50%.

Games FG % for Kobe:
Game 1: 37% (L)
Game 2: 52% (W)
Game 3: 30% (L)
Game 4: 32% (L)
Game 5: 33% (L)

Yup, Kobe carried them in that playoffs.

I'm too biased to answer this question

I've just decided to agree to disagree with most of the posts in this thread

None of the answers are really surprising tho, given this board's fan demographics.

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I've hated him ever since he put that fade away shot in Shaq's eyes in the playoffs years ago.

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Damn you're one of the few non-Spurs fans that remembers that

Shaq's team got the last laugh tho

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I also can't stand the look he gives the officials. If it's a call he doesn't like he runs to them with that big eyed look.

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To be fair, he'll also raise his hand to acknowledge fouls, too, but he doesn't get credit for it

Tbh he really doesn't whine any more than most players in the league today.

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I still can't believe that.

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10 years later, my jimmies are still rustled

"Fisher" is a worse pejorative than the f bomb in the Alamo City to this day.

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I can agree with you on that.

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Seems like a culture that's developed league-wide. Not a bad tactic--the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so to speak, and staying on the officials has proven to pay off as long as you can bring shite to their attention without getting a tech. It is what it is at this point, I suppose.