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re: Anti-Religion group attacks Clemson football program
Posted on 4/18/14 at 1:38 pm to TK421
Posted on 4/18/14 at 1:38 pm to TK421
quote:
I bet you have no problem with Obama ending his SOTU speech with "God bless America" even though that is an even greater example of the state endorsement of religion than anything Dabo could do.
I do my voting at a Baptist church. Go figure.
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Posted on 4/18/14 at 1:43 pm to TreyAnastasio
quote:
Wait, wait, wait you think a state employee endorsing Christianity while doing his job isn't a state endorsement of a religion?
So, by your own twisted understanding, it is unconstitutional to discuss Christianity while at work if you work for the government. Why do you hate freedom of speech?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 1:48 pm to TreyAnastasio
Does or does not the president place his hand on a bible when he takes his oath of office? Does that bible say "unspecific religion" on the front ?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 1:49 pm to TK421
quote:
So, by your own twisted understanding, it is unconstitutional to discuss Christianity while at work if you work for the government.
Wow. If thats what you got out of this I dont know what to tell you.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 1:50 pm to TK421
quote:
Why do you hate freedom of speech?
You keep mentioning freedom of speech, yet a state employee does not have the same right to free speech as a non-public employee does:
quote:
Introduction Does the First Amendment allow the government to use a public employee's speech as the ground for discharge or denying a promotion? The Supreme Court's answer to this question was at one time a simple "Yes." Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote in 1892, "There may be a constitutional right to talk politics, but there is no constitutional right to be a policeman." The so-called right/privilege distinction was maintained even as late as 1952 when, in Adler v Board of Education, the Court said, "You have a constitutional right to say and think as you will, but you have no constitutional right to work for the government."
quote:
In essence, the U.S. Supreme Court has carved out an exception to its First Amendment jurisprudence for public employees. Basic free-speech rules that apply outside the workplace sometimes have little relevance for public employees.
https://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/madison/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/FirstReport.PublicEmployees.pdf
This post was edited on 4/18/14 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 4/18/14 at 1:53 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
You keep mentioning freedom of speech, yet a state employee does not have the same right to free speech as a non-public employee does:
True in some instances, but we have also traditionally valued religious expression as more important than other forms of speech because it is specifically mentioned in the first amendment.
It is also quite a stretch to compare a policeman to a football coach at large public university. But even if they were the same, I doubt a cop would get in trouble for preaching to people he arrests on the way to jail.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 1:55 pm to TigersforEver
Good. I'm tired of the hypocritical "Christian values" being shoved down everyone's throat.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:00 pm to Melvin
Hes not teaching his team anything wrong bad or evil. Hes teaching them good morals that will help them become better men. Not sure how exactly thats such a bad thing
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:00 pm to TigersforEver
quote:
The freedom from religion foundation is at it again, this time whining about how Clemson coach Dabo Swinney is trying to instill values in his players through church-related activities.
LINK
No problem as long as it's not forced.
If it is mandatory, it's a clear violation of the first amendment.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:00 pm to Melvin
I dont see anyone shoving "Christian values " down anybody's throat. Hell, i just got back from lafayette. I was there for 6 hours and no one mentioned religion........ People who want to be offended are always going to find something to be offended about
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:01 pm to fleaux
quote:
Does or does not the president place his hand on a bible when he takes his oath of office? Does that bible say "unspecific religion" on the front ?
I am pretty sure there is nothing that legally says the President-elect has to swear on a Bible if he would rather swear on The Qoran or even the Consitution. It is just a fact that all the President's have nominally been Christian.
Personally, I am a Christian as I self-identify as Episcopalian, but I will be damned if I was "encouraged" to listen to the same ole backwoods Baptist bullshite that most of these team chaplains spout out. If I am going to have to listen to a religious lecture, it better be pretty damn eloquent.
Musa Smith is a Muslim that played at UGA under Richt, and if I recall, he talked about that experience at one point if anyone is interested in looking it up.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:02 pm to QJenk
quote:
Hes not teaching his team anything wrong bad or evil. Hes teaching them good morals that will help them become better men.
Which is commendable. Why cant he do it without the christian overtones?
This post was edited on 4/18/14 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:17 pm to TreyAnastasio
Those are his beliefs. Why can't he is my question? I guess it all comes down to do you see religion as a good or bad thing really
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:18 pm to TigersforEver
quote:
Anti-Religion group attacks Clemson football program
The word "attack" may be the most over-used word in the world.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:28 pm to Green Chili Tiger
I don't think the fact he was physically on campus at the time is the critical point. Courts have recognized the rights of religiously-affiliated groups to meet at public schools (FCA, after school prayer groups, etc). It will all rest on at what point is he not acting as coach and when does he begin acting as Dabo, private citizen.
(Admittedly, if he has done this in the locker room it will be tougher to demonstrate a seperation between his public/private selves.)
(Admittedly, if he has done this in the locker room it will be tougher to demonstrate a seperation between his public/private selves.)
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:31 pm to SoFla Tideroller
They have a team chaplain. No getting around that one.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:36 pm to TreyAnastasio
I don't think that is as big of a deal as you do. The military has chaplains. And the military is certainly a public, government-funded entity. Clemson's shortcomings on that front may actually be not having clergy of the three major faiths.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 2:47 pm to TreyAnastasio
quote:
They have a team chaplain. No getting around that one.
Who hands out bibles in the locker room
Posted on 4/18/14 at 3:59 pm to QJenk
quote:
Hes not teaching his team anything wrong bad or evil. Hes teaching them good morals that will help them become better men. Not sure how exactly thats such a bad thing
If you actually did what the bible tells you to do, you would be an evil person. You would be in jail for the rest of your life. Go read it......
Posted on 4/18/14 at 5:00 pm to Tiger in NY
Does South Carolina have laws that prohibit what he's doing?
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