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Started By
Message
re: If W Hadn't Started A War In Iraq...
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:15 am to son of arlo
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:15 am to son of arlo
quote:
There was another after that one.
No, it was the same one.
Hussein invaded Kuwait in the early 90's and then again around 2003?
2
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:17 am to DosManos
quote:
Hussein invaded Kuwait in the early 90's and then again around 2003?
I guess he is arguing that the first Gulf War never ended?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:17 am to DosManos
quote:
Hussein invaded Kuwait in the early 90's and then again around 2003?
Desert Storm ended in a ceasefire. It's kinda the same as the Korean War isn't over yet.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:17 am to DosManos
quote:
There was another after that one.
No.
There was a violation of the cease-fire agreement on Saddam's part.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:21 am to Godfather1
Clinton recalled a bombing raid that was already airborne once after Saddam said he would do better in the future. I bet Saddam got a good chuckle out of that one.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:26 am to Yat27
quote:
There was no official declaration of war, but they did in fact vote to authorize military action in Iraq.
Congress gave Bush the authority to use military force IF NECESSARY.
There was nothing necessary about the war. Bush abused the discretionary authority he was given.
eta: And, furthermore, Congress's decision to give Bush that discretion was based on multiple misrepresentations that came from Bush and Cheney.
For example, here is part of the text of Congress's resolution to authorize military action:
quote:
Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations;
Iraq did not have a significant chemical and biological weapons capability and was not actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability. From where, do you suppose, Congress got that bit of misinformation?
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 9:35 am
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:27 am to Rex
The dishonesty of "progressives" is astounding.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:28 am to Godfather1
quote:
No.
There was a violation of the cease-fire agreement on Saddam's part.
Oh ok, my bad. When was the last cease fire violation before we invaded in 2003? Looks like he violated the ceasefire agreement multiple times.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:29 am to DosManos
quote:Which is the reason I played Northern Watch and Southern Watch for years.
Oh ok, my bad. When was the last cease fire violation before we invaded in 2003? Looks like he violated the ceasefire agreement multiple times.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:30 am to DosManos
quote:
Oh ok, my bad. When was the last cease fire violation before we invaded in 2003? Looks like he violated the ceasefire agreement multiple times.
Ever hear of the straw that broke the camel's back?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:32 am to Godfather1
quote:
Ever hear of the straw that broke the camel's back?
Yessir. I was just asking.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:37 am to Rex
quote:
Bush abused the discretionary authority he was given.
Now that's rich. A staunch Obama supporter talking about abusing authority.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:43 am to Godfather1
I'll answer my own questions (in attempting to get back on track).
If Bush had not invaded Iraq and had concentrated on Afghanistan, I think a few things would have happened:
(1) Osama would have probably been killed on Bush's watch;
(2) Bush would have maintained a higher approval rating through his reelection and through his second round of midterms;
(3) the democrats would have closed the gap in the 2006 midterms, but they would not have taken back both branches of Congress;
(4) the housing crash would have taken place anyway and W would have been assigned the blame - which anyone should know is not true - but hey, elections;
(5) With no war in Iraq, the war sentiment that persisted and the "the world hates the US" would not have driven citizen of the world Obama past Hillary;
(6) Hillary would have narrowly defeated McCain on the heels of the financial collapse by harkening back to Bill's days of fiscal bliss;
(7) W's legacy would be similar in the long run to that of his father...not too good, not too bad - middle of the road presidency;
(8) Hillary would not have been as large of a train wreck as Obama - would have been a two termer - but Obama would be waiting in the catbird seat to replace her as president (he would likely be the Vice President right now),
(9) Saddam or one of his sons would still preside over Iraq and no Arab Spring would have displaced them - they would still be a massive thorn in the side of whomever was in the WH.
If Bush had not invaded Iraq and had concentrated on Afghanistan, I think a few things would have happened:
(1) Osama would have probably been killed on Bush's watch;
(2) Bush would have maintained a higher approval rating through his reelection and through his second round of midterms;
(3) the democrats would have closed the gap in the 2006 midterms, but they would not have taken back both branches of Congress;
(4) the housing crash would have taken place anyway and W would have been assigned the blame - which anyone should know is not true - but hey, elections;
(5) With no war in Iraq, the war sentiment that persisted and the "the world hates the US" would not have driven citizen of the world Obama past Hillary;
(6) Hillary would have narrowly defeated McCain on the heels of the financial collapse by harkening back to Bill's days of fiscal bliss;
(7) W's legacy would be similar in the long run to that of his father...not too good, not too bad - middle of the road presidency;
(8) Hillary would not have been as large of a train wreck as Obama - would have been a two termer - but Obama would be waiting in the catbird seat to replace her as president (he would likely be the Vice President right now),
(9) Saddam or one of his sons would still preside over Iraq and no Arab Spring would have displaced them - they would still be a massive thorn in the side of whomever was in the WH.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:43 am to Eurocat
The invasion by Bush in 2003 was an exteninsion of the action taken by his father which was given the OK by the UN. It ended not with a peace treaty but a ceasefire which was not being obeyed by Saddam to his peril. The UN was given that power by the Dem led Congress with the wording of the War Powers Act and the fact that the membership of the US in the UN is a treaty entered into by the US, take a look at Article 51 of the charter and the War Powers act which should take about ten minutes of reading. Then look at Missouri vs Holland for the Supremes view on treaties entered to by the US which has never been revisited in 100 years.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:46 am to UsingUpAllTheLetters
quote:
quote:
Congress did not vote to go to war. The last time that happened was World War Two.
LINK
Favorite part of that link:
YEA D Clinton, Hillary NY
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:54 am to UsingUpAllTheLetters
quote:
quote: Congress did not vote to go to war. The last time that happened was World War Two. LINK
The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution was NOT a vote to go to war. It granted Bush the authority to use military force IF he deemed it NECESSARY, and only after further reliance upon peaceful diplomatic means had failed.
As it stands, military force was not necessary, and diplomatic measures against Iraq had been working.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 10:04 am to DeltaDoc
quote:
(1) How would the country be different now;
We'd have a few trillion dollars less debt.
quote:
(2) How would the world be different;
Saddam may have eventually been taken down by the Arab Spring, but Iraq and Iran wouldn't be BFF's.
quote:
(3) Would Obama even be president; and
No, he wouldn't have even gotten the nomination.
quote:
(4) What would W's legacy be as a president?
The man who rallied the country after 9/11 and who did more to help Africa than any previous President.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 10:09 am to Eurocat
quote:
Congress did not vote to go to war. The last time that happened was World War Two.
Techninicality you're correct, but no one who was paying attention at the time had any doubts that if Congress gave W a blank check to go to war, he would promptly cash it.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 10:11 am to son of arlo
quote:quote:
There was another after that one.
No, it was the same one.
And I guess you also believe that Putin's actions in Ukraine are just a continuation of WWII.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 10:11 am to trackfan
quote:
who did more to help Africa than any previous President.
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