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Message
re: Will Entitlements Ever be Cut?
Posted on 4/15/14 at 12:54 pm to tigerpawl
Posted on 4/15/14 at 12:54 pm to tigerpawl
Sorry, I couldn't see past your straw man:
All the liberals I know would admit that there is abuse in all entitlement programs.
But lemme guess, the author of the linked article tells people to buy paper gold.
Amirite?
quote:
anyone who argues there is no abuse regarding entitlements is in a state of denial
All the liberals I know would admit that there is abuse in all entitlement programs.
But lemme guess, the author of the linked article tells people to buy paper gold.
Amirite?
1
Posted on 4/15/14 at 1:00 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
The reason why it's unlikely is because it requires a cultural change. Key word: Culture. And that's a tough nut to crack. At what point on the historical timeline did culture start to shift to where we are today? I'm 100% in favor of caring for those who can't legitimately care for themselves, but over time it's morphed into a gigantic con-game/shark feed. Catch-me-if-you-can.
Incrementalism. The opposite of over reach. Govt always assumes more power but in small ways.
A good example is happening in La. right now. Some woman had a daughter who wrecked her car and died. The woman decided to make a cause to get retainer cables put on all La. highways.
Same old pitch: "It might save a life."
"Cost doesn't matter to save children."
What politician is gonna get up and say "I vote against this spending bill because if teenagers drive like idiots they take the risk of dying. They do not have rights to public money for their stupidity."
Ain't gonna happen. Never.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 1:52 pm to Zach
I think entitlements won't be cut but what you need to do or be to get them may become more difficult. I can easily see the SS age raised in the next decade or so and medicare being means tested. If we do that most of the problems go away for a long time.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 1:53 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
Will Entitlements Ever be Cut?
Not as long as the two political parties we now have are in charge.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 1:59 pm to Zach
quote:
Incrementalism. The opposite of over reach. Govt always assumes more power but in small ways.
A good example is happening in La. right now. Some woman had a daughter who wrecked her car and died. The woman decided to make a cause to get retainer cables put on all La. highways.
Same old pitch: "It might save a life."
"Cost doesn't matter to save children."
What politician is gonna get up and say "I vote against this spending bill because if teenagers drive like idiots they take the risk of dying. They do not have rights to public money for their stupidity."
Ain't gonna happen. Never.
I have an even better version of overreach by the state DOTD:
For over 10 years, residents of St. Amant who live on or right off of Stringer Bridge Road have complained about the lack of guardrails on one dangerous curve in the road that drops off into a bayou. There have been a handful of deaths and a dozen accidents on that curve in this time.
A woman driving her minivan impaired with her kids in the back drives off of said curve, killing all of them last year. The residents once again tell DOTD (because the road is a state highway) to erect some guardrails or at least some signs (there aren't even any of these). DOTD instead decides to close down the bridge (Stinger Bridge) which IS A HALF MILE AWAY ON A COMPLETELY UNRELATED CURVE!!!!
To avoid liability for the deaths, the state is planning on handing over that road to the parish for maintenance. Typical TPOS government.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 2:22 pm to Eurocat
quote:
I think entitlements won't be cut but what you need to do or be to get them may become more difficult.
While I think most on this board would be for increased requirements, what makes you think benefits will become more difficult to get when the exact opposite has been happening over the past 10-15 years?
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:13 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
why it's unlikely is because it requires a cultural change
That is why it will take collapse to bring it about, but that is one of the principles that Bozo and his sychophants want to bring about in fact. The Clower/Piven model of utter failure of the system is demanded to bring about transformation(see Communism) as the Constitution and all that it holds dear are pissed upon by every bit of this administration.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 4:58 pm to C
quote:
Eventually there will be a base income distributed to everyone that will be able to cover basic living expenses and hopefully this will lead to elimination of all other forms of entitlement.
Then come the protests demanding that illegal aliens get the income, as well as demanding that the income be raised.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 7:50 pm to tigerpawl
Speaking of entitlements...I'll just leave this here:
Posted on 4/15/14 at 7:53 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
The whole system will have to collapse. Completely.
It will, as it's a Ponzi scheme. But when elected officials point that out, they are either racists or want to kill Granny. Kind of hope it all comes crashing down in Hindenburg fashion so we can say I told you so.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 8:15 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
I think anyone who argues there is no abuse regarding entitlements is in a state of denial or just plain stupid.
I would never say there is no abuse, but I do think it's overstated by Fox, Rush, etc.
I would be fine with any common sense changes to eliminate whatever abuse does exist. I don't even have a problem with drug tests in order to receive the entitlements, provided you don't make these already poor people also pay for the tests.
ETA: I would be fine with retroactively charging someone who is booted out of the program for the cost of the drug tests they received, either via witholding that portion of their tax return of through the courts or some other means. Assuming of course there were adequate systems in place to prevent false positives.
This post was edited on 4/15/14 at 8:26 pm
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:54 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Simple--You pay taxes, you vote and have a say so in how this government runs. Or Voter ID(supress voters bullshite) plus when you pass a drug/alcohol test then you get your federal help. Oh--no steaks and hi end shite--gov't issued powdered milk and cheese.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 10:09 pm to JBM210
quote:It's the voters that don't pay taxes, yet still have a say so in how the government is run that bothers me. Representation without taxation. They have no skin in the game.
Simple--You pay taxes, you vote and have a say so in how this government runs.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 10:12 pm to tigerpawl
If we don't we are in some very serious trouble
Posted on 4/15/14 at 11:18 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
All the liberals I know would admit that there is abuse in all entitlement programs.
Agreed. Virtually every left of center friend of mine would support steps to curb abuse of entitlement programs.
And while I understand the concern, I think the doomsday scenario is a bit overwrought. Eventually, when it's absolutely necessary, SS will be amended (later age for benefits, indexing, whatever) as will other programs.
People on both the right and left, as long as I've been alive, have thought we were in imminent danger of going to hell in a hand basket.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 11:52 pm to VOR
quote:But that's as far as they'll go.
All the liberals I know would admit that there is abuse in all entitlement programs.
Posted on 4/16/14 at 12:17 am to VOR
quote:
quote:
All the liberals I know would admit that there is abuse in all entitlement programs.
Agreed. Virtually every left of center friend of mine would support steps to curb abuse of entitlement programs.
It's not just conscious abuse. Medicare costs are astronomical because people keep going to the doctor for every case of the sniffles, doctors keep ordering unnecessary procedures, patients opt for the most costly, invasive treatments rather than making the most educated choices, etc etc. The costs keep shifting because no one wants to pay the bill. As long as we spend other people's money with impunity, Medicare costs will continue to skyrocket out of control.
Posted on 4/16/14 at 6:59 am to Eurocat
Social Security and Medicare...
cracks me up how the two entitlements the recipients actually pay for to some degree are the ones that people look to restrict
cracks me up how the two entitlements the recipients actually pay for to some degree are the ones that people look to restrict
Posted on 4/16/14 at 7:12 am to REG861
quote:
It's not just conscious abuse. Medicare costs are astronomical because people keep going to the doctor for every case of the sniffles, doctors keep ordering unnecessary procedures, patients opt for the most costly, invasive treatments rather than making the most educated choices, etc etc. The costs keep shifting because no one wants to pay the bill. As long as we spend other people's money with impunity, Medicare costs will continue to skyrocket out of control.
I agree to an extent. I also have suggested in the past that we were better off when we had more of a fee for service system. Before employers (and, yes, unions) began providing comprehensive health coverage to employees. The costs weren't "real" to people, although now the chickens have come home to roost. When I was a kid (I've repeated this ad nauseam) we only had surgical and hospital coverage at very reasonable premium that my family paid. If we got sick and went for a doctor visit or required a prescription, we could afford to pay out of pocket. Those days are long gone.
Posted on 4/16/14 at 7:15 am to udtiger
quote:
Social Security and Medicare...
cracks me up how the two entitlements the recipients actually pay for to some degree are the ones that people look to restrict
I see the point and that's why they're both political hot potatoes. But they're also the ones that can be changed with less damaging effect on recipients. That said, I'm all for cracking down on Medicaid abuse where possible.
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