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re: CBO: Obamacare will have lower premiums, insure more, and cost government less

Posted on 4/16/14 at 2:50 pm to
Posted by Flame Salamander
Texas Gulf - Clear Lake
Member since Jan 2012
3044 posts
Posted on 4/16/14 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

The simple physics of economics dictates that as more people get "in" the cost will go down. oh for christ's sake here's a "college econ" question- what happens to the demand curve for health services when more people receive health benefits? what happens to the price level of the service in that case?


Go back and read through the thread. My statement was that the costs (premiums) in the future will go down for the ACA pools...this is because the first people into the pools are the most unhealthy and as more healthy people get in the cost (premiums) will go down.

I believe that you are not taking a look at the entire picture here. There are a lot of single payer type systems in industrialized countries around the rest of the world that would belie the conclusions you have reached. Survey after survey has shown that the overall yearly costs of those programs are much less than what is spent here, now, in the US.
Posted by 90proofprofessional
Member since Mar 2004
24445 posts
Posted on 4/16/14 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

My statement was that the costs (premiums) in the future will go down for the ACA pools

a premium is a price, not a cost. that is a certainly not crippling for your argument, but since you've been lecturing about "college Econ", "the laws of supply and demand", and "the simple physics of economics", you need to get that shite right.

quote:

this is because the first people into the pools are the most unhealthy and as more healthy people get in the cost (premiums) will go down.

this is not ever necessarily true, and you (we) have no idea whether it is or will be the case in any or all of the exchanges.

and it is also definitely NOT what you said earlier- your argument was one of economy of scale, which only takes into account size of the pool, not the distribution of risk therein. you cannot assume that the increase in size of the pool will be driven by the healthy more than by the unhealthy.

and here's another thing about those newly-covered healthy people you might have picked up on in your econ classes: being covered will actually provide some incentive for them to relax on their healthy-ness. and it will do so for the newly-covered unhealthy as well.

regardless of that, what happens to the medicaid pools? what happens to the employer-provided pools with the employer mandate now in effect? what happens to utilization rates in all of them? how do the new definitions of "essential benefits" affect all of that?

how can you say that it is clear from the laws of supply and demand that premiums will decrease?
quote:

There are a lot of single payer type systems in industrialized countries around the rest of the world that would belie the conclusions you have reached. Survey after survey has shown that the overall yearly costs of those programs are much less than what is spent here, now, in the US

you have been commenting on the obamacare exchanges, which are not anything like single-payer systems. of what relevance is any part of this comment?
This post was edited on 4/16/14 at 3:30 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
124167 posts
Posted on 4/16/14 at 4:51 pm to
quote:

I believe that you are not taking a look at the entire picture here. There are a lot of single payer type systems in industrialized countries around the rest of the world that would belie the conclusions you have reached. Survey after survey has shown that the overall yearly costs of those programs are much less than what is spent here, now, in the US.
Good God Almighty!
Medicare is single payer.
What are the costs associated with that program?

It is almost as if there are extra costs associated with the American system.
I wonder what those could be?
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