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Message
$9.6M "stolen" by "cheating" at casino
Posted on 4/12/14 at 9:56 am
Posted on 4/12/14 at 9:56 am
LINK
I've never understood how this is considered cheating. Especially "cheating" enough to get in trouble for it. The way I see it, the casino is at fault for their own losses for using defective cards. Think about it, if you noticed all the face cards had a different pattern or color or shade on them compared to non-face cards, would you not use that to your advantage? I don't see how it's any different than knowing when another player is bluffing by noticing changes in their behavior.
quote:
The lawsuit alleges Ivey and an associate exploited a defect in cards made by a Kansas City manufacturer that enabled them to sort and arrange good cards in baccarat.
quote:
The lawsuit claims the cards, manufactured by Gemaco Inc., were defective in that the pattern on the back of them was not uniform.
quote:
The casino claims the technique, called edge sorting, violates New Jersey casino gambling regulations.
I've never understood how this is considered cheating. Especially "cheating" enough to get in trouble for it. The way I see it, the casino is at fault for their own losses for using defective cards. Think about it, if you noticed all the face cards had a different pattern or color or shade on them compared to non-face cards, would you not use that to your advantage? I don't see how it's any different than knowing when another player is bluffing by noticing changes in their behavior.
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Posted on 4/12/14 at 9:58 am to twoliter
It's always cheating if somebody figures out how to beat the house.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 9:59 am to twoliter
It's not cheating at all. Phil cleaned them out and they mad.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:07 am to twoliter
quote:
I've never understood how this is considered cheating. Especially "cheating" enough to get in trouble for it. The way I see it, the casino is at fault for their own losses for using defective cards.
Casinos are racist against intelligent people.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:09 am to twoliter
It would only be cheating if somehow they planted those cards or an employee was in on it.
The casino exploits any edge it can get, as should the customer.
If you can tell what a card is, are you going to point that out?
If you can "tell" what cards a person has, by there expression, do you point out their tell?
C'mon, is gambling. The point is to win.
The casino exploits any edge it can get, as should the customer.
If you can tell what a card is, are you going to point that out?
If you can "tell" what cards a person has, by there expression, do you point out their tell?
C'mon, is gambling. The point is to win.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:11 am to twoliter
Zero sympathy for the casino given. Their fault. Shut up, Get better cards, and learn from it. I should cry because a casino lost 9.6 million dollars? Do they cry when they fleece people out of much more money? No, so, 
who cares? You lost and it's your own damn fault too. Cry me a river.
who cares? You lost and it's your own damn fault too. Cry me a river. Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:15 am to twoliter
You left out the part where the dealer may have been involved. If the dealer is not involved I agree with you. Guess that's why they're going to court.
quote:
The lawsuit claims that Ivey and his companion instructed a dealer to flip cards in particular ways, depending on whether it was a desirable card in baccarat. The numbers 6, 7, 8 and 9 are considered good cards. Bad cards would be flipped in different directions, so that after several hands of cards, the good ones were arranged in a certain manner -- with the irregular side of the card facing in a specific direction -- that Ivey could spot when they came out of the dealer chute.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:18 am to twoliter
How can they prove this is how he won?
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:36 am to twoliter
Can they even prove this?
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:55 am to twoliter
I wish I could sit on the jury. Not Guilty!
This post was edited on 4/12/14 at 10:57 am
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:59 am to twoliter
I give you an official dealer price list. My price list has a flaw you spot. A widget costing $18,000 on the previous price list now has a typo showing a price of $1,800.00.
You send in a purchase order. Order entry checks it against the current pricing and sees $1,800.00. The order is entered and shipped. At some point, the flaw is pointed out and your order is spotted.
We contact you, tell you that was a typo and either pay the correct price or send the widget back.
If you have no intention of ever buying from us again, you tell us to frick off. It isn't your job to point out our error.
You send in a purchase order. Order entry checks it against the current pricing and sees $1,800.00. The order is entered and shipped. At some point, the flaw is pointed out and your order is spotted.
We contact you, tell you that was a typo and either pay the correct price or send the widget back.
If you have no intention of ever buying from us again, you tell us to frick off. It isn't your job to point out our error.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 11:30 am to twoliter
What if there had been another player at the table who lost 9 million while this defective deck was being used? Would the house pay them back? Hell no.
I have worked in the gaming industry for 10 years. If the deck was defective that is the casino's responsibility to catch it.
I have worked in the gaming industry for 10 years. If the deck was defective that is the casino's responsibility to catch it.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 11:40 am to twoliter
Yeah by the casino's logic the casino too cheats every single person who is in the lifetime red at the casino, which is the vast majority of patrons. No casino would cheat if the odds weren't purposely stacked in casino's favor.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 1:46 pm to twoliter
Is this one of those things where you come into my house and steal all my stuff and it's totally "legal" and my fault because I left my door unlocked?
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:24 pm to twoliter
Its against the rules that are established by casinos, so its cheating. Similar to if IRS refunds you $100,000 by mistake, its illegal to keep it. Even though its their fault, you can't take advantage, legally... And yes, I think its bullshite.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:47 pm to twoliter
The casinos were far more successful in their lobbying efforts in New Jersey to make stuff like this illegal than in Vegas. Back when the mob ran things as late as the 70's they got lots of these laws passed and once the major resorts took over of course they saw no need to overturn them.
In Atlantic City, what Ivy did is illegal. So is card counting. I fully agree that it should not be illegal, but that's how the law reads up there.
In Atlantic City, what Ivy did is illegal. So is card counting. I fully agree that it should not be illegal, but that's how the law reads up there.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 6:34 pm to twoliter
casino got what they deserve. They don't refund people who they screw out of money.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 7:09 pm to twoliter
This guy is so awesome.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 7:27 pm to twoliter
quote:
It's always cheating if somebody figures out how to beat the house.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 8:51 pm to twoliter
If Ace Rothstein were in charge that shite would never happen
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