re: All English games to start 7 mins late tomorrow and through Monday

Heysel is a bit different. Both fan bases played a large part in that tragedy. Which is quite different than this situation where it was largely out of their control.

That being said, I don't know if any of you have ever been to Heysel, but even now after so many renovations that place is still by far the biggest dump of an athletic stadium I've ever seen.

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Well it seems that just like in Heysel the higher ups really fricked up with the stadium choice

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pretty much the reason English teams got banned from Europe or at least the last straw. Juve and Italians fans to this day still hate the English. That first meeting b/w Liverpool and Juve about 9 years ago was tense.

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And out of all of the supporters at all of the clubs in England, what percentage were at these semi finals? Maybe 5% at best? You really expect everyone to know the layout of the Superdome because there have been a few Superbowls there?

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You totally miss the point.

I've been to several stadiums before I didn't know dick about but I still understand basic principles of order and expected human behavior. I know I have to have a ticket to get into the game. I know if I can't move because I'm in a crowd pushing and forcing my way through is not the proper course of action.

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Hillsborough is def off limits man. Esp since their own fans died.

Other incidents yes they share the blame even if they won't up to it. Which does piss other fan bases off

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I know it's probably insensitive, and I genuinely feel terrible for the victims I can't imagine being killed in that manner or losing a loved one like that, but the way they act about it is ridiculous. Just like the Pool poster in this thread getting so indignant and they have lost all capacity for common sense when Hillsborough is brought up.

Just because it was their own fans that died doesn't mean they are absolved of all blame. That doesn't make sense.

They have told themselves the same thing for 25 years now and they totally believe it and nothing will open their eyes at this point.

It's the greatest, most successful, PR campaign I've ever seen.

But you are right I shouldn't have even engaged it know where it would go and I will let it be.

Randy is just trying to be an a-hole... How do you blame individuals trying to get in to see a match... as a collective? such bullshite!

I'd like to see Randy explain, to Trevor Hicks, that while he tried to suck the vomit out of one of his two daughters that died that day, that it was partly them to blame... he wouldn't, because he's a coward and one of the internet "tough guys" he rants about...

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How do you blame individuals trying to get in to see a match... as a collective? such bullshite!

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How do you not blame people for attempting to force their way in when there was clearly no room? Particularly those that did not even have tickets? The ticketed ones I can forgive and understand.

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I'd like to see Randy explain, to Trevor Hicks, that while he tried to suck the vomit out of one of his two daughters that died that day, that it was partly them to blame... he wouldn't, because he's a coward and one of the internet "tough guys" he rants about...

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I can't even imagine what Trevor Hicks went through that day and every day since but it still doesn't change the facts. If being part of the Justice crusade helps him cope then more power to him.

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The bottom line is the police had a job to do and they didn't and spent many years covering it up

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Agreed and the second part is what is most egregious.

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Randy is just trying to be an a-hole... How do you blame individuals trying to get in to see a match... as a collective? such bullshite!

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You're right. This whole board gets sucked into his bullshite time and again. You point out valid facts and the dude ignores all of them.

The entire country, the entire parliament, is just pandering in their own conspiracy to absolve a fan base - yeah that makes total sense. In Randy magic Chelsea world everyone acts like perfect model citizens, uses manners, and helps grandmas across the street.

The most hilariously ironic thing is that Chelsea fans used to be the most notorious for the same actions he is blaming Liverpool supporters for. Its so glaringly obvious that this dude has no clue about English culture or history. For that reason alone I should learn to ignore him.

You can argue with stupidity, but you can't argue with ignorance.

They had a lot of pent up anger. The corporate white collar cocaine addictions probably didn't help either.

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You point out valid facts and the dude ignores all of them.

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I haven't ignored one "fact" you've posted. I've agreed with almost all of them.

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The most hilariously ironic thing is that Chelsea fans used to be the most notorious for the same actions he is blaming Liverpool supporters for.

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I'm not saying Chelsea fans, or United, Leeds, Millwall etc... fans weren't/aren't capable of the causing the same type situation. It's probably only by luck that they didn't. If they had though I would hope they would take responsibility for it.

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In Randy magic Chelsea world everyone acts like perfect model citizens, uses manners, and helps grandmas across the street.

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No but when you act in a riotous manner you never know what may happen. Again, I know nobody meant for anybody to get hurt, much less die, but it doesn't change the fact that their actions were partly responsible for it.

But I know you will just continue to ignore everything I'm actually saying and call me stupid so...