re: Man dead after refusing to show police ID

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In many places you don't unless there's "reasonable" evidence you've done something wrong. Had a friend who was ID'd at a party where a fight broke out (he wasn't involved) and he got hauled away for supposedly unpaid fines. Shouldn't have shown the ID

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I just find it fascinating that ANY person alive would support the idea that a govt representative, absent any other reason to do so, can just walk up to you and ask you for your ID and you must show it to him. Failure to do so can result in your detention.

Hell, what if the person just says "hey, I was out with the family and forgot to carry my ID cause I'm not driving". Now that person has to sit and wait while a cop figures out his identity?

Why exactly? Unless again, there is some OTHER legitimate accusation of wrongdoing.

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I just find it fascinating that ANY person alive would support the idea that a govt representative, absent any other reason to do so, can just walk up to you and ask you for your ID and you must show it to him. Failure to do so can result in your detention.

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I could think of a few words other than 'fascinating'....shocking, appalling, ignorant, naive, simple-minded, terrifying, bizarre, ludicrous, stalinist, scary, stupid etc.

We spent 50 years fighting communism, won, and promptly adopted their statist policies in policing, privacy and economics...

How do you feel about this one?

LINK

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A Georgia teen who dreamed of being a Marine was killed by police at his front door while wielding only a Wii remote, the family lawyer claims.
Christopher Roupe, 17, of Euharlee was felled by a single police bullet when an unidentified officer arrived at the family mobile home to execute a probation violation warrant against his father, authorities said.

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Officer justified based on maintaining her own safety?

It wasn't the first time she pulled her firearm on an unarmed person.

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Personnel records obtained by NBC station WXIA of Atlanta show Gatny was fired from the police department in Acworth, a suburb of Atlanta, after a 10-year stint there, for failing to report to work. Her claims for disability compensation were rejected as "not medically supported," according to the records, and she joined Euharlee police nine months ago.

Gatny's Acworth records also show four car accidents in two years and reprimands for refusing to follow orders and for leaving her weapon with a civilian while she had her picture taken, WXIA reported.

And in an odd parallel to the shooting of Christopher, Gatny was investigated in 2008 for having fired her service weapon at a suspect who was trying to remove his backpack because she believed the suspect was going for a gun, the records show — even though her partner said he never thought the suspect was armed.

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Oh, and she was "cleared" in that case.

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Police investigators determined she shouldn't be punished in the 2008 case because the initial call said the suspects might be armed.

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You and your ilk would rather wanted murderers go free when they are stopped by the police for a minor crime

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Um. If they're stopped for a minor crime, then they can be asked for ID. Has anyone in this thread said otherwise? I know I haven't.

Nice StrawMan though.

So. Again. If they do NOT suspect me at the moment of a crime, why the frick should I have to give ID?

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It's another tragedy but totally irrelevant to the specific incident we are discussing in this thread.

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Actually it isn't. There is a pattern of protecting incompetent cops.

You also claim that police should be aggressive to protect themselves from criminals. Is shooting at a guy with a Wii or someone taking off a backpack overly aggressive? She was cleared on the latter.

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You and your ilk would rather wanted murderers go free when they are stopped by the police for a minor crime then be inconvenienced by having to state your true name to the police when you get stopped by them or be detained until your true name is determined.

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You got a lot wrong here friend.
If a murderer is stopped for a minor crime and goes free who's fault is that but the cop? If he did a minor crime then they have every right to get a ID. Even barney knows this. Duh huh.

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or be detained until your true name is determined

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I'll pass on a police state thank you very much. Citizens of this country should NEVER be detained until their name is determined to be true when they have committed no illegal act.

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Because they reasonably suspect after the crime was committed that you committed the crime.

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Well again, I'm speaking on the issue of a cop being allowed to just walk up to me on the street and ask me for an ID with no cause.

If he has cause, then when I ask "why do you want my ID", he should fricking TELL me why he wants it rather than play the "because I'm a cop and I said so" card. How hard is that?

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If someone robs a bank at 1:00 pm whose description you fit and at 1:05 pm the police see you walking down the sidewalk a block away from the bank so they stop you and ask you to identify myself, are you saying that you shouldn't have to show some form of valid ID or give your true name because the police didn't suspect you at the moment the bank was robbed?

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If they walk up to me and I didn't do it, I should be allowed to ask why they are seeking my ID and they should answer me.

I do enjoy your examples though as they judiciously avoid the far sillier shite cops demand IDs for. Smart rhetoric.

To your example though. Exactly how many people should they be allowed to stop and demand IDs from? Let's say at that time of night, there are 100 people dispersed at varying intervals on that street.

With NO other information other than that a crime happened down the road, can they just grab all 100 of us? What if we really dont' have ID on us? I don't necessarily carry ID when I'm running. What if 20 of us fall into that category?

So yeah. I'm telling you that the whole point of fricking FREEDOM is that sometimes, the cops might have to work harder.

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Well again, I'm speaking on the issue of a cop being allowed to just walk up to me on the street and ask me for an ID with no cause.

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That's not what's being discussed in this thread.

However, I agree with you about that specific situation.

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If he has cause, then when I ask "why do you want my ID", he should fricking TELL me why he wants it rather than play the "because I'm a cop and I said so" card. How hard is that?

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All of the times I have been stopped by the police and I asked them why am I being stopped they immediately told me.

However, if they said what you said in your example then they are being an a-hole.

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If they walk up to me and I didn't do it, I should be allowed to ask why they are seeking my ID and they should answer me.

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I agree.

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To your example though. Exactly how many people should they be allowed to stop and demand IDs from? Let's say at that time of night, there are 100 people dispersed at varying intervals on that street.

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They should be able to detain everyone who fits the description.

If the bank robber was a white man, approximately 60 years of age, 5' 11" in height, 140 lbs then they shouldn't be able to stop a black or other dark skinned man, a young white man, a woman, a midget or anyone else who obviously doesn't fit the description of the bank robber.

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With NO other information other than that a crime happened down the road, can they just grab all 100 of us?

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That almost never is the case. They usually have some type of description such as height, weight, type of clothes, etc. but in that case they would most likely stop no one because they have no description to go by.

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What if we really dont' have ID on us?

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Then state your real name.

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What if 20 of us fall into that category?

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If they have the manpower available to stop all 20 then they should do it.

If not, they should stop the ones who most fit the description.

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So yeah. I'm telling you that the whole point of fricking FREEDOM is that sometimes, the cops might have to work harder.

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And based on all of your reasonable questions you can see how hard the good cops will have to work to catch the bank robber.

Why make it impossible by letting the bank robber or in the example I gave, the wanted murderer, be able to give a false name and not be detained until that name is determined to be their true name?

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We have already gone over this.
Its to broad and a easy crutch for bad or lazy cops as in the theatre incident.

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In the theater incident the police did not know who committed the domestic violence when they arrived at the scene and began questioning the father as a suspect.

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A guy running down a street in a red shirt after a bank was robbed by a guy in a red shirt is reasonable.

A guy arguing with his wife outside a theatre is not reasonable to assume he's a perp. Just a few questions would have determined that.

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If the guy arguing with his wife fits the description of the bank robber then the police have reasonable grounds to stop him and question him.

After all, they don't know that the woman he is arguing with is his wife and what they are arguing about.

The police could reasonably suspect that she is an accomplice in the crime arguing with the bank robber because he won't give her any of the money.