Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US. - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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sammyptiger
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2012
1037 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

I never stated his action was in the US, I stated he was BEING SUED IN THE US.
Its purposely misleading. "being sued for anti gay stance here in US"

How about being sued in US for Anti gay stance in Uganda. That actually helps your argument, because it seems even more absurd. But my point is, hes not being sued for condemning homosexuals in the US.






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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6034 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

Its purposely misleading. "being sued for anti gay stance here in US"


No it's not.

quote:

But my point is, hes not being sued for condemning homosexuals in the US.


Nor is mine. As explained.

However, US dollars are being used and private funds are being used from US based groups!







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Scruffy
USA Fan
Member since Jul 2011
28861 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


Well, we kinda do have a tax board, the Money Board.

Look, this thread actually fits on this board. That is one of the reasons I posted in it. It is the large majority that are more deserving of the OT.






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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
62853 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

No, this is political. Just as political as the ACA..

I know it's political. Never said it wasn't. It's just the same damn crap over and over again. There is no breaking news on the Gay Front.






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sammyptiger
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2012
1037 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

private funds are being used from US based groups!
They can spend their money how they want.






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S.E.C. Crazy
Alabama Fan
Alabama
Member since Feb 2013
5352 posts
 Online 

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


Must be Scott Lively, I have posted about this preacher being sued because of his anti-homosexual preachings in Uganda. The judge was pretty much chastizing the argument as it happened, then some organization George Soros was part of was understood to be the group that was suing and the judge did a 180 and allowed the suit to go forwad with like a 67 page opinion ,

The judge is a noted homosexual activist himself.






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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6034 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

They can spend their money how they want.


Sure they can. Again, stop acting like you are a defender of churches and pastors being able to hold to their beliefs when in reality, you are perfectly ok with christians being silenced.






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Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
14019 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

because of his anti-homosexual preachings in Uganda



I thought the Ugandan gov. Was against homosexuality?






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S.E.C. Crazy
Alabama Fan
Alabama
Member since Feb 2013
5352 posts
 Online 

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


YES UGANDA

But the thread title is accurate.

He is being sued in the UNITED STATES.

Is he not ?

Hence , pastor being sued for anti homosexual stance in U.S. is correct.







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Socratics
Florida State Fan
Virginia Beach
Member since Dec 2013
591 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


He is being sued for action taking during his trips to Uganda. Why he can be sued?

CCR = Center for Constitutional Rights
quote:


The Center for Constitutional Rights has announced this morning that they are filing a lawsuit on behalf of Sexual Minorities of Uganda (SMUG) against American anti-gay extremist Scott Lively for his role in “the decade-long campaign he has waged, in coordination with his Ugandan counterparts, to persecute persons on the basis of their gender and/or sexual orientation and gender identity.” CCR announced its action this morning in a conference call with reporters. I was among those participating in the call.

CCR is bringing the suit under the Alien Tort Statute, which provides federal jurisdiction for “any civil action by an alien, for a tort only, committed in violation of the law of nations or a treaty of the United States.” In other words, it allows a foreign national to sue in U.S. courts for violations of U.S. or international law conducted by U.S. citizens overseas. According to CCR, the U.S. Supreme Court has affirmed that ATS is a remedy for serious violations of international law norms that are “widely accepted and clearly defined.”

The crime against humanity in international law that CCR alleges that Lively violated is the crime of persecution, which is defined as the “intentional and severe deprivation of fundamental rights contrary to international law by reason of the identity of the group or collectivity.” CCR alleges that the defendant plaintif, Sexual Minorities Uganda, as well as individual staff members and member organizations, suffered severe deprivations of fundamental rights as a direct result of a coordinated campaign “largely initiated, instigated and directed” by Scott Lively.


Some of of Scott lively's actions.
quote:

Lively is best known for his role, reported first here on BTB, as featured speaker at an anti-gay conference held in Kampala in March 2009. During that conference, Lively touted his book, The Pink Swastika, in which he claimed that gays were responsible for founding the Nazi Party and running the gas chambers in the Holocaust. Lively then went on to blame the Rwandan genocide on gay men and he charged that gay people were flooding into Uganda from the West to recruit children into homosexuality via child sexual molestation.

During that same trip, Lively met with several members of Uganda’s Parliament. Only two weeks later, there were already rumors that Parliament was drafting a new law that “will be tough on homosexuals.” That new law, in its final form, would be introduced into Parliament later in October. Meanwhile, the public panic stoked by the March conference led to follow-up meetings, a march on Parliament, and a massive vigilante campaign waged on radio and the tabloid press. Lively would later boast that his March 2009 talk was a “nuclear bomb against the gay agenda in Uganda.”

In the complaint filed in Federal District Court, CCR provides details of Lively’s activities in Uganda going back to 2002, when Lively began touring Uganda and establishing contacts with leading Ugandan figures, including Stephen Langa (who organized the March 2009 conference) and Pentecostal pastor Martin Ssempa. While there, he was interviewed for major daily newspapers and appeared on radio and television. In a conference call with reporters, Spees said that Lively’s particular influence on Uganda’s religious leaders was the primary avenue for “telegraphing the sense of terror” through his accusations against the gay community, and that influence picked up significantly following the 2009 conference. The complaint includes several examples where Lively’s rhetoric showed up virtually verbatim in statements from Ugandan religious and political leaders. She also pointed out that the preamble of the bill’s original draft included language that was lifted straight out of conference materials.

Tarso Luís Ramos, Executive Director of Political Research Associates, echoed Spees’s assertion that Lively’s influence played a major role in the growing climate of persecution in Uganda. He described the main avenue of influence as from religious leaders like Lively to prominent Ugandan religious leaders who also wield considerable moral and political influence. Ramons said that during Lively’s 2009 trip to Uganda, he also met with members of the Ugandan Christian Lawyers Association and members of Parliament, and spoke at an assembly of 5,000 college students and at major pentecostal churches. According to the complaint, M.P. David Bahati, author of the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, was among those who attended the Kampala conference. Bahati and former Ethics and Integrity Minister James Nsaba Buturo were also named as co-conspirators in the complaint.

Ramos and Spees contrasted Lively’s role with that of the secretive U.S. organization known as The Family or The Fellowship. Spees described Lively as the “go-to guy whose rhetoric went into hyperspace to stamp out” LGBT people “in a strategic way.” She alleged that he provided a “tangible, clear plan” in contrast to The Family, which tried to distance itself from the bill. One part of the “clear plan” outlined in the complaint was Lively’s recommendation for the criminalization of LGBT advocacy in Uganda. That recommendation became Clause 13 in the Anti-Homosexuality Bill.


Lawsuit Filed Against Scott Lively For Instigating Anti-LGBT Persecution in Uganda
Hes going way beyond religious norms against Homo-sexuality. I mean this guy actually sounds like he had a pretty big role in the gay persecution in Uganda. Even has some of his words in the actual anti-gay bill in Uganda. He also pushed anti-gay laws in Russia as well. I don't know if they can build a case against him ,but this guy is despicable. God would never promote such extreme hatred.



This post was edited on 1/20 at 12:25 pm


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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6034 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

I thought the Ugandan gov. Was against homosexuality?


It is. That's the next part of this. If their gov has laws against it, how can the US pastor be sued for anything here?






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Joshjrn
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2008
5703 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


You either don't understand the legal standard for a MSJ or are intentionally misrepresenting the plaintiffs' claims.





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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6034 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


So his crime was what? He held a rally?





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sammyptiger
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2012
1037 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

Again, stop acting like you are a defender of churches and pastors being able to hold to their beliefs when in reality, you are perfectly ok with christians being silenced.
No Im not. I see you cant handle debate.






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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6034 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


What am I misunderstanding?

Is a pastor being sued for speaking out against homosexuality? Yes







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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6034 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

No Im not. I see you cant handle debate.


I can and am.






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sammyptiger
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2012
1037 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


Then quit trying to define me and engage on the issues.





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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6034 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

Socratics


Judge Ponsor relies upon the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court ("ICC") for his definitions of "persecution" and "crime against humanity", which the complaint alleges Pastor Lively aided and abetted by his support for the anti-gay actions and agenda of members of Uganda's government. However, the United States has never ratified the Rome Statute.

Judge Ponsor acknowledges that no current international treaty or compact, including the Rome Statute, makes discrimination against persons on account of their sexual orientation expressly subject to its terms.

Judge Ponsor holds that Pastor Lively, who visited Uganda twice in 2002 and then not again until 2009, could be regarded as a "co-conspirator" with a member of the Ugandan legislature who introduced proposed legislation against homosexual behavior (the bill never passed).

Judge Ponsor also holds that Pastor Lively may be held responsible in Massachusetts for the alleged anti-gay sentiment aroused in Uganda by his authorship of two books published in the United States in 2007 and 2009 and describing and attacking the gay rights agenda in the United States, even though the plaintiff organization could not allege that any Ugandan police or government officials who implemented that country's own anti-gay agenda against its members had actually read either book.

Judge Ponsor declines to apply Ugandan law to the offenses of civil conspiracy and negligence alleged in the complaint -- because Uganda does not recognize the tort of civil conspiracy, while Massachusetts does, and because the concept of "duty of care" under Ugandan negligence law was unclear. Recognizing that the plaintiff could not sue Pastor Lively in Uganda for these offenses, Judge Ponsor throws open the doors of his courtroom so that the plaintiff will have a forum for its grievances.







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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6034 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


quote:

Then quit trying to define me


I'm pointing out what you are in agreement with. That's you defining you.






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Joshjrn
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2008
5703 posts

re: Pastor being sued for anti gay stance here in the US.


Have you read, at minimum, the first 15 pages of the opinion? If you haven't, you should do so before getting too aggressive about what, exactly, he's being accused of doing.





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