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Bill Simmons nailed it regarding the Brady/Manning argument

Posted on 1/17/14 at 10:02 pm
Posted by NawlinsTiger9
Where the mongooses roam
Member since Jan 2009
34957 posts
Posted on 1/17/14 at 10:02 pm
Love or hate the guy, he hit this right on the head, IMO

Here's the question that he's responding to:

quote:

Q: You know what this weekend is right? It’s the G.O.A.T. Bowl between Brady and Manning. If Brady beats Manning and plays spoiler to Evil Manning’s sensational season, can the Brady v. Manning debate finally be over? Manning can’t be the best ever if he is 1-3 against Brady in AFC championship games and 4-11 overall. It’s the final nail in the coffin of Manning’s playoff legacy. Isn’t beating Brady crucial for his career credentials?
—Peter, Saratoga Springs


And his answer:

quote:

SG: Well, we know Manning already pulled a Wilt and clinched the “greatest regular-season QB ever” title. We know he shed any and all legacy baggage after the Colts rallied from 18 to beat the 2006 Pats, and that — short of totally self-destructing on Sunday, throwing six picks, having a nervous breakdown and being carted off the field while deliriously screaming “Omaha!” over and over again — nothing could change what you would write about Manning 30 years from now. After that 2006 comeback, I wrote that he only needed a Super Bowl victory “to enter the John Elway Zone — loosely translated to mean, ‘All right, here’s my ring, now you guys can all shut the hell up and leave me alone.’” And that’s how it played out. You win the ring, everyone shuts their trap. Meanwhile, Brady could lose on Sunday, retire to become a full-time Uggs spokesman and own this legacy: three rings, five Super Bowls, eight AFC title games in 12 years, one of the most memorable QB seasons ever (2007). And that’s not changing, either.

OK, so let’s say one of them shines and wins the next two games. Could you really say that earns him GOAT status? Manning’s career has been marred by a steady slew of playoff collapses; Brady hasn’t won the title for nearly a decade. That has to mean something, right? I don’t see us ever solving the Quarterback GOAT question — it’s not like basketball, where the best player in the Finals almost always wins. Football has too many variables: defense, coaching, special teams, home-field advantage, weather, lucky bounces, unexpected fumbles … too much happens that a quarterback can’t control. Brady came within two plays of winning five Super Bowls and one first down in Indy of battling the immortal Rex Grossman in a sixth … but any fan of the 2001 Raiders, 2001 Rams, 2003 Panthers and 2011 Ravens would stomp their feet in disbelief if you played the “If only Brady had better luck!” card. shite happens in football — for you and against you.

So my vote for QB GOAT goes to nobody, regardless of what happens these next two rounds. It’s more like, “Did that dude crack the conversation or not?” And you can’t have the “Best QB” conversation without these five guys being involved: Brady, Manning, Montana, Elway and Unitas. (Every other candidate comes with a “But … ,” whether it’s Marino, Favre, Young, Bradshaw, Luckman, Graham, Baugh or whomever.) Year after year, those five guys gave you the best chance to contend — of anyone — as long as you surrounded them with a half-decent team. I don’t think someone like Aaron Rodgers cares about being remembered as the GOAT; he just wants to win some titles, make some money, stay healthy and turn that list from five to six.

One other thing to remember: I’m 99 percent sure that Manning and Brady don’t care about this head-to-head stuff (and wrote as much in 2011). There’s a weird kinship between quarterbacks; they’re almost like famous brain surgeons or something. Only THEY know how hard that job is. They get along off the field, work out together, support each other and pick each other’s brains. When Manning and Brady suffered major injuries, each called the other to lend their support. And they both assumed that I just keep plowing along, I just care about the next game mentality years and years ago. There’s no other way.

When I called Brady about his “rivalry” with Manning in 2011, I gotta admit, it was mildly disappointing to find out that he didn’t care. Only one thing mattered to him: that playing Manning was always a challenge, something you couldn’t take lightly. That’s it. We want these guys to care about legacies and rivalries and all of that 24/7 talking head/sports fan/message board bullshite, but at least in football, you can’t think that way. They’re concentrating on staying healthy, outsmarting opponents, remembering playbooks, competing, working out, brainstorming … there’s just too much to do. That’s the reality.

The best thing about Sunday’s AFC title game? That we’re running this thing back. Bird and Magic clashed in three out of four NBA Finals, at the peak of their powers … and then it never happened again. Brady and Manning battled in three AFC playoff games in four years, right as they were hitting their primes … and then it never happened again. So this is cool. Everyone wins, I say.



This post was edited on 1/17/14 at 10:03 pm
Posted by wildtigercat93
Member since Jul 2011
112372 posts
Posted on 1/17/14 at 10:04 pm to
This is the last guy I would ask for his opinion on this or any football question



but hes right. the GOAT is just message board fodder and is an unwinnable argument
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
171080 posts
Posted on 1/17/14 at 10:22 pm to
he's absolutely right, but he didn't really say anything RE: manning vs Brady as far as who is the better QB. just talked about how we should be happy just to watch them
Posted by Chad504boy
4 posts
Member since Feb 2005
166535 posts
Posted on 1/17/14 at 10:46 pm to
What a pussy article with 4000 words saying nothing


Manning loses he's a fraud
Posted by FootballNostradamus
Member since Nov 2009
20509 posts
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:30 pm to
Simmons is absolutely right on about the argument though.

To think that Brady had all the "luck" in his first couple of runs and then it's sorta caught-up to him with the insane Eli plays and the Indy game.

Crazy to think he's 3-4 plays away from having 6.
Posted by Jcorye1
Tom Brady = GoAT
Member since Dec 2007
71533 posts
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:32 am to
I am completely biased, so take this with a grain of salt.

Manning is undeniably the better player. He is the prototypical pocket passer, he can dissect a defense. His accuracy is elite at every level and he used to have a big arm.

Brady does not have the physical gifts Manning does. Yes, they can both dissect defenses unlike any quarterback before or since, but Brady does not have elite accuracy on his deep balls.

I personally believe Brady has the ultimate passion for the game. You can tell how much he cares, how hard he is on himself, and how it rubs off on his teammates. I don't think Brady is the better player, but I think he's the better quarterback. I think his intangibles more than add up to the lesser physical gifts.

He is willing to sacrifice anything to win, and I think that's what sets him and Manning apart.
Posted by LeonPhelps
Member since May 2008
8185 posts
Posted on 1/18/14 at 12:42 am to
Here is something that I don't get. Bart Starr actually won 5 championships under Lombardi. Why does he get no credit and Lombardi get 100% of the credit? Meanwhile, Brady has the amazing fortune to play under the only coach in NFL history who can lay claim to being better than Lombardi, and yet Brady seems to get 100% of the credit. How does this make any sense to anyone? I mean we all know Brady was just a role guy in his only super bowl victories, even throwing for just 145 yards in his first one. Manning took over the worst team as a rookie (#1 overall draft pick, after all) under a coach who had never one a playoff game, much less a super bowl. Manning has been the focus from day one while Brady has not. There seems to have been a ton of revisionist history since Brady's great 2007 season about how significant Brady was to the previous 3 super bowl teams.

I am not saying Brady is not great because he is clearly a very good QB. I think years of tutelage under the GOAT coach is the primary reason. But the credit given to Brady for his super bowl victories is mind boggling. Why does Eli not get the same credit for his two victories or Ben Roethlisberger for that matter?
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
111156 posts
Posted on 1/18/14 at 7:33 am to
quote:

If Brady beats Manning and plays spoiler to Evil Manning’s sensational season, can the Brady v. Manning debate finally be over? Manning can’t be the best ever if he is 1-3 against Brady in AFC championship games and 4-11 overall.
Well that's terrible logic.
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 1/18/14 at 6:53 pm to
quote:

So my vote for QB GOAT goes to nobody, regardless of what happens these next two rounds. It’s more like, “Did that dude crack the conversation or not?” And you can’t have the “Best QB” conversation without these five guys being involved: Brady, Manning, Montana, Elway and Unitas. (Every other candidate comes with a “But … ,” whether it’s Marino, Favre, Young, Bradshaw, Luckman, Graham, Baugh or whomever.) Year after year, those five guys gave you the best chance to contend — of anyone — as long as you surrounded them with a half-decent team. I don’t think someone like Aaron Rodgers cares about being remembered as the GOAT; he just wants to win some titles, make some money, stay healthy and turn that list from five to six.


Making that argument without Drew Brees who has the same number of rings as and beat Manning head to head in the Superbowl is insane.
I never post on the MSB, but no mention of Brees's name in 3 pages bothered me.
This post was edited on 1/18/14 at 6:56 pm
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