I said the team is capped out. They have 7 guys signed for the next two years that put the team over the cap. I'm trying to point out, that minus moving one of those contracts, this is the team we are stuck with for at least the next two seasons.

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Holiday/Evans will get $21MIL combined. Is that reckless?

No, its not reckless, but I think it is excessive and a miss-allocation of resources. I thought that PG was fine with the Vasquez/Rivers combination for at least another season. I thought the team had bigger concerns. I don't get the Evans signing at all. Unless the team is convinced that he can play significant minutes at SF, it is a waste to me. Its the same thing that happened last offseason with Anderson. You make a big splash to sign someone at a position you are already set at.

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Haven't you also said that you think the Mavs will be better than the Pelicans?

Sort of. One guy said the Mavs would be way worse than the Pelicans and I got into it with him. I think both teams are about .500 teams now and neither one is that much better.

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They signed Monta Ellis (27) for 3/$25 and Jose Calderon (31) for 4/$28. Ignoring max salaried Dirk and Gordon, this season the Mavs are paying $24MIL for Marion, Ellis, and Calderon to be their 2-4 best players. The Pelicans are paying $28MIL for Holiday, Evans, Anderson to be their 2-5 best players. Which would you rather?

I would prefer the Mavs situation. They had greater needs at both spots they made signings and got good bargains for their money. Dallas will have something like 30m this summer in cap space as well and will reload or do something different.

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You say you want youth and that the team should give Davis time to develop. The best 5 players on the team are under 25 and locked up for the next 2 years, guaranteed at market rates (other than Gordon). Anderson has come the closest to reaching his ceiling, but he can still get better and the other 4 can get much better.

The average NBA career is under 4 years. Throwing Davis out, the other guys have all been in the league longer than that. Guys mature differently, but to project that they all get better at this stage in their career is just being optimistic. It might happen, but they might get worse as well. It should have happened already. If Evans was going to be a star, it would have happened.

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But then you say the team is a failure because they can't flip anyone RIGHT NOW. Why do they have to move guys immediately? What happened to waiting to see how things develop? We can wait if a guy is 19, but not if a guy is 23? The big contracts on this team (save an injury prone Gordon) are easily moveable given the age and talents of Holiday/Evans/Anderson if you recognize that they will not be looking to trade anyone (except maybe Anderson) before the deadline this season and perhaps not until after next season. They didn't make these moves so they could blow up the roster 6 months later because the team is 8 games below .500.

What about one summer later. Next summer. Say this doesn't work, cause we have absolutely no post defense or post scoring and we get killed down low. The team barely misses the playoffs and Demp's butt is on the line to make a move. Put yourself in his shoes, how do you fix it? Who can you trade and get the players you need that fit?

I'm not trying to be a kill joy, I just don't like what they did. I'm old school when it comes to basketball. I like size down low and disciplined players that run an efficient system. I wanted a good Center (draft or FA) to keep Davis at PF and they actually got worse there. I wanted Gordon gone and they doubled down there and ignored SF. I actually liked the Holiday pick-up, but I wanted to keep Vasquez as well(he was a great value, even off the bench). This is the 4th season in a row, the player I liked most got shipped off (Thornton, West, Jack and Vasquez). I'd like to see team loyalty get rewarded sometime..

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Posted by TigerinATL

Member since Feb 2005

61582 posts

Posted on 8/14/13 at 1:57 pm to brmark70816

quote:
I'm trying to point out, that minus moving one of those contracts, this is the team we are stuck with for at least the next two seasons.

Stuck is when you have big contracts tied up in guys like Peja and Okafor, not guys like Holiday and Evans. The Pelicans may not have any stuck money if a Happy Eric Gordon is a Healthy Eric Gordon.

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Dallas will have something like 30m this summer in cap space as well and will reload or do something different.

No they won't. The cap hold on Dirk will be at least $23 million. I'm sure he'd take a pay cut for a difference maker, but will he take a pay cut for another Monta Ellis type? I doubt it, and Melo and Bron aren't going to Big D. Dallas will have around $10 million to work with, not $30 million.

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I don't get the Evans signing at all. Unless the team is convinced that he can play significant minutes at SF, it is a waste to me. Its the same thing that happened last offseason with Anderson. You make a big splash to sign someone at a position you are already set at.

Spreading out starter quality players = maximizing utilization of starter quality players. Do you want Aminu taking 7 shots a game and Evans taking 7 shots a game, or Evans taking 10 shots a game and Aminu taking 4 shots a game?

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Posted by corndeaux

Member since Sep 2009

9634 posts

Posted on 8/14/13 at 6:14 pm to brmark70816

quote:
this is the team we are stuck with for at least the next two seasons.

I think the team is happy to see what happens over the next two seasons. You don't put a roster like this together and expect to turn it over quickly.

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I thought that PG was fine with the Vasquez/Rivers combination for at least another season. I thought the team had bigger concerns. I don't get the Evans signing at all. Unless the team is convinced that he can play significant minutes at SF, it is a waste to me. Its the same thing that happened last offseason with Anderson. You make a big splash to sign someone at a position you are already set at.

I disagree on the PG and Vasquez was due a raise after this season. But I do think pgs are easier to find. I understand the other complaints. I disagree to an extent and I think there are ways to make it work, but I see what you're saying. I completely understand if you don't have faith that the coaching will figure out how to make it work.

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The average NBA career is under 4 years. Throwing Davis out, the other guys have all been in the league longer than that. Guys mature differently, but to project that they all get better at this stage in their career is just being optimistic. It might happen, but they might get worse as well. It should have happened already. If Evans was going to be a star, it would have happened

All 4 of those guys have proven to be good to very good NBA players. Evans put up 20/5/5 as a rookie. That's happened like 3 other times in league history* (Jordan and Bron did it too, so Evans has talent). Anderson has done things that only guys like Peja and Ray Allen have done. For the most part, these guys have played on bad teams in bad organizations and have been asked to do more than they are capable. No one is expecting any of them to become superstars, but there is still growth left in their games. Obviously no guarantee it happens, but there's no guarantee that Noel or McLemore are even in the league in 4 years. These guys (depending on Gordon's knees) will be in the league for another 10 years.

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What about one summer later. Next summer. Say this doesn't work, cause we have absolutely no post defense or post scoring and we get killed down low. The team barely misses the playoffs

If this team barely misses the playoffs, I can't imagine Demps will be on the hot seat. That means probably somewhere around 45 wins and an exciting finish to the season for a young, up and coming team. Ownership okayed these moves. They have expectations, but they also knew what they are getting into when they decided to bring these guys in. The team is still on Davis's timetable. It won't go anywhere unless he's very good. They could have their draft picks and could have signed a true center and a true SF. It would have looked nicer, but none of it matters if Davis isn't a star.

But say post defense kills them, that means Davis isn't the guy we thought he was. You can win without a traditional on the block center. Joakim Noah is listed at 232 and he has anchored the best defense in basketball the last 3 years. Post up possessions on offense are only mediocre in terms of efficiency. It's more of a Euro drive/kick and inside-out league and this roster is set up for that type of offense.

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I'm not trying to be a kill joy, I just don't like what they did. I'm old school when it comes to basketball. I like size down low and disciplined players that run an efficient system. I wanted a good Center (draft or FA) to keep Davis at PF and they actually got worse there

I get it. It's a wild team. It might not work at all, but let's see how it plays out before we decide that it won't work. I like the bet on Davis being ready to be the centerpiece of the team sooner rather than later.

Edit:

Third guy was Oscar.

LINK

This post was edited on 8/14/13 at 6:25 pm

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Posted by THRILLHO

Metry, LA

Member since Apr 2006

49524 posts

Posted on 8/14/13 at 6:37 pm to brmark70816

quote:
. I'm trying to point out, that minus moving one of those contracts, this is the team we are stuck with for at least the next two seasons.

They can add a solid player with the MLE next year. If they're willing to let Gordon walk in two or three years, they can probably use the MLE again in 15/16. We're loaded at guard and PF right now and Aminu and Smiht are capable stop gaps. They can use this season to see how Evans can handle the 3/Davis the 5 and target a player to fill their need. And none of those contracts are unmovable. Gordon's value couldn't be any lower than it is right now and they were supposedly getting offers for him in the offseason.

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