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Started By
Message
re: Small caliber deer rifle recommendations?
Posted on 7/25/13 at 5:53 am to faxis
Posted on 7/25/13 at 5:53 am to faxis
Here we go again 
I still don't like it. By far the most consistent performers I've ever seen were .26-.30 caliber rounds at 2400-2800 where the bullet always exited predictably and acted like it was supposed to.
20 yard or less blood trails the majority of the time is 100% cool with me. I KNOW that if I make a marginal hit, I will have a blood trail and a good chance to get my deer. If I smoke that big arse bone ball where the shoulder connects, I'm still going to get an exit in the rare event that the deer goes anywhere.
Hit that shoulder bone with a .243 or any other fast and light type load on a quartering shot. If he doesn't drop right there you're probably in for a long evening. Relying on the ground check is bad practice IMO. It leads to dog work.
I still don't like it. By far the most consistent performers I've ever seen were .26-.30 caliber rounds at 2400-2800 where the bullet always exited predictably and acted like it was supposed to.
20 yard or less blood trails the majority of the time is 100% cool with me. I KNOW that if I make a marginal hit, I will have a blood trail and a good chance to get my deer. If I smoke that big arse bone ball where the shoulder connects, I'm still going to get an exit in the rare event that the deer goes anywhere.
Hit that shoulder bone with a .243 or any other fast and light type load on a quartering shot. If he doesn't drop right there you're probably in for a long evening. Relying on the ground check is bad practice IMO. It leads to dog work.
1
Posted on 7/25/13 at 6:59 am to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
Many other hunters have found reduced loads of high power rounds to be very lethal.
I never said a reduced load was not effective. I just said that there is no advantage over a full power 243 load.
quote:
My recs are a result of extensive hunting experience as opposed to looking at a chart.
Aren't you the one who keeps bringing up shooting jello and charting the results. Big contradiction here.
quote:
You're wrong, but you don't realize it because you've never hunted w/ reduced loads. Again, deer are not killed by #'s and equations.
These are factual numbers. Numbers are an indicator of a bullets performance. It's called physics.
Basically, to sum it up. I never said that ANY of these reduced loads were not lethal on deer. I use a 223 which has poor numbers on paper compared to any of these rounds. My point is that you have no justification to say that a reduced load in 7mm-08, 270 or 308 is any better than a full power 243.
quote:
My recs are a result of extensive hunting experience as opposed to looking at a chart.
quote:
I'll pass on that one. My hunting time is too precious to spend it experimenting w/ a 22 centerfire. As I explained, the 223 Rem is not an adequate tool for the type of deer hunting I do.
I can go on forever about your contradictions but these two statements sum it up pretty well.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 8:42 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:My biggest deer to date was hit with a .243 square on the round bone. He did not go 25 yards. Lung/heart area was a messy area of goo. Point is, that's a poor shot. I should never have hit that far forward, but he was trotting behind a doe, and it was a now or never type deal.
Hit that shoulder bone with a .243
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:04 am to AlxTgr
So have we all agreed what the BEST small caliber for deer is yet, or are we having the same argument that we have a couple times a year?
My advice:
.243
7mm-08
30-30
257 Roberts
270, 30-06, 308 w reduced recoil loads
They all have, and will continue to, kill plenty of deer.
Go to a gun shop and buy one you like and start putting animals in the freezer. Leave the physics to someone else to discuss.
My advice:
.243
7mm-08
30-30
257 Roberts
270, 30-06, 308 w reduced recoil loads
They all have, and will continue to, kill plenty of deer.
Go to a gun shop and buy one you like and start putting animals in the freezer. Leave the physics to someone else to discuss.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:07 am to AlxTgr
It kills them with that shot, but it rarely exits and rarely leaves shite for a blood trail when you hit that shoulder shite.
Sometimes you have to take that "now or never" shot or let it go. Shoot something with some arse to it and you don't have to let it go.
Shoot something which isn't marginal with no noticeable recoil increase, and you get a nice exit and a blood/bone trail right to him much more often. It makes more sense.
Sometimes you have to take that "now or never" shot or let it go. Shoot something with some arse to it and you don't have to let it go.
Shoot something which isn't marginal with no noticeable recoil increase, and you get a nice exit and a blood/bone trail right to him much more often. It makes more sense.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:11 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:You can't know what another round would have done.
It kills them with that shot, but it rarely exits and rarely leaves shite for a blood trail when you hit that shoulder shite.
quote:Another speculation.
Sometimes you have to take that "now or never" shot or let it go. Shoot something with some arse to it and you don't have to let it go.
quote:I've not discussed any marginal cartridges.
Shoot something which isn't marginal
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:17 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
It kills them with that shot, but it rarely exits and rarely leaves shite for a blood trail when you hit that shoulder shite.
Sometimes you have to take that "now or never" shot or let it go. Shoot something with some arse to it and you don't have to let it go.
Shoot something which isn't marginal with no noticeable recoil increase, and you get a nice exit and a blood/bone trail right to him much more often. It makes more sense.
You are not speaking in quantifiable terms. Something that has "arse" to it for one person could be a plinking caliber to someone else. Many of you also talk about employing larger caliber rifles to compensate for poor shots. This simply doesn't work. If you are happy wounding deer that will die in the woods and likely never be found you should shoot them with FMJ 55gr .223 rounds as that is what the round was designed for. You probably won't find them but they will very likely die even if gut shot.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:24 am to DanTiger
If all this was quantifiable there would be zero debate. There would be some kind of measurable "deer killability" value, but a deer isn't homogenous.
The whole purpose of this discussion is so that people don't leave dead deer in the woods.
The simple fact is a 7mm-08 shooting quality ammo will bust through bones and leave a blood trail more often than a .243 shooting quality ammo will.
If you want to let deer walk because you can't get a good enough shot for full penetration from what you're using than that's fine. I prefer to shoot something that gives me a much better chance for being successful, ESPECIALLY when we are talking about an inexperienced person pulling the trigger.
The .243 is for experienced hunters, not kids and wives who are more likely to make mistakes. The .243 leaves much less room for error than other calibers of similar recoil.
The whole purpose of this discussion is so that people don't leave dead deer in the woods.
The simple fact is a 7mm-08 shooting quality ammo will bust through bones and leave a blood trail more often than a .243 shooting quality ammo will.
If you want to let deer walk because you can't get a good enough shot for full penetration from what you're using than that's fine. I prefer to shoot something that gives me a much better chance for being successful, ESPECIALLY when we are talking about an inexperienced person pulling the trigger.
The .243 is for experienced hunters, not kids and wives who are more likely to make mistakes. The .243 leaves much less room for error than other calibers of similar recoil.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:26 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:These are objectively false statements that reasonable minds cannot differ upon.
The .243 is for experienced hunters, not kids and wives who are more likely to make mistakes. The .243 leaves much less room for error than other calibers of similar recoil.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:28 am to AlxTgr
quote:Agreed!!!
These are objectively false statements that reasonable minds cannot differ upon.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:41 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
The simple fact is a 7mm-08 shooting quality ammo will bust through bones and leave a blood trail more often than a .243 shooting quality ammo will.
The same can be said of a 308 vs. 7mm-08, or a 30-06 vs a 308, or a 300 Win Mag vs a 30-06, or a 338 Win Mag vs a 30-06, or a 375 H&H vs a 338 Win Mag... The point is that the question is what caliber is a "good" caliber for his girlfriend. As Kalashnikov once said, "Best is the enemy of good enough." From my experience a 223 with a good bullet, like the Barnes TSX, is a solid performer with less recoil than other calibers mentioned and has the most bang for your buck when practicing.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:42 am to DanTiger
quote:
You are not speaking in quantifiable terms. Something that has "arse" to it for one person could be a plinking caliber to someone else. Many of you also talk about employing larger caliber rifles to compensate for poor shots. This simply doesn't work.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:58 am to Buck_Rogers
Glad it's worked for you, but there's no way ill ever advocate somebody inexperienced hunting deer with smaller than a .25 caliber rifle.
Experienced people have to call me to find deer for them after hitting deer in places where more gun could have made the difference and saved all of us some time and effort. There's no logical reason to purchase anything less than a 7mm-08 for your kid or wife or girlfriend or anybody else who isn't sure what they're doing.
Experienced people have to call me to find deer for them after hitting deer in places where more gun could have made the difference and saved all of us some time and effort. There's no logical reason to purchase anything less than a 7mm-08 for your kid or wife or girlfriend or anybody else who isn't sure what they're doing.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 10:00 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Again, you can't know that.
Experienced people have to call me to find deer for them after hitting deer in places where more gun could have made the difference and saved all of us some time and effort.
quote:This is just idiotic.
There's no logical reason to purchase anything less than a 7mm-08 for your kid or wife or girlfriend or anybody else who isn't sure what they're doing.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 10:11 am to AlxTgr
Give one reason why anybody should go out and purchase .243 for a kid/wife, when they can get a caliber suitable for close range elk hunting at no perceivable increase in recoil.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 10:15 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:So much stupid in here. First, who is really going to elk hunt? Second, google .243 like I told you. More elk have been killed with a .243 than deer by this entire board.
Give one reason why anybody should go out and purchase .243 for a kid/wife, when they can get a caliber suitable for close range elk hunting at no perceivable increase in recoil.
Look, you really don't know much of anything about the .243 or it's capabilities. You know what reasonable people do when they don't know about a topic? They shut the frick up.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 10:16 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Because they don't plan on shooting an elk with it.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 10:23 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:So, you either did not find the deer and therefore have no idea where the bullet hit or you found the deer which meant that the bullet did it's job and killed it.
Experienced people have to call me to find deer for them after hitting deer in places where more gun could have made the difference and saved all of us some time and effort.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 10:26 am to AlxTgr
quote:Amen to that!
Look, you really don't know much of anything about the .243 or it's capabilities. You know what reasonable people do when they don't know about a topic? They shut the frick up.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 10:30 am to Buck_Rogers
Yes I found it. How the hell would I know where it was hit if I didn't?
If you consider shooting a deer square in the shoulder and having to get a dog to find it an hour later because the bullet failed to penetrate well enough a good result because "it did its job" then you can keep shooting it.
I personally cannot stand to go to where a deer was standing when I pulled the trigger and not see blood.
Still no reason to choose a .243 over the 7mm-08, or any other larger easy on the shoulder caliber, other than you are personally attached to it and like it.
If you consider shooting a deer square in the shoulder and having to get a dog to find it an hour later because the bullet failed to penetrate well enough a good result because "it did its job" then you can keep shooting it.
I personally cannot stand to go to where a deer was standing when I pulled the trigger and not see blood.
Still no reason to choose a .243 over the 7mm-08, or any other larger easy on the shoulder caliber, other than you are personally attached to it and like it.
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