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re: Dwight Howard: Interested in Rockets and Mavericks?
Posted on 5/20/13 at 8:14 am to shel311
Posted on 5/20/13 at 8:14 am to shel311
I assume he would only come for a max deal? I mean 3 years ago he was a franchise center for a decade, now he can't do anything apparently?
If motivated, he can be 20/10/3 type of guy, and none of them exist in the modern game except for a guy like Hibbert. He needs to work on a post game, but there aren't many better places than Houston to do that.
But it could hurt Houston's up tempo offense with a center who may not want to sprint 30 minutes a game
If motivated, he can be 20/10/3 type of guy, and none of them exist in the modern game except for a guy like Hibbert. He needs to work on a post game, but there aren't many better places than Houston to do that.
But it could hurt Houston's up tempo offense with a center who may not want to sprint 30 minutes a game
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Posted on 5/20/13 at 8:21 am to bigpetedatiga
quote:Ok, fair enough.
say 3
1. Kevin Durant
2. Lebron James
3. Chris Paul
that is just my opinion, but thats the point
quote:If you believe it played out the way the media says, it is.
Also the injury he played through is the same one he was going to sit for until Kobe basically called him a bitch
quote:It's obviously all speculation, but I think a lot of people would say the Rockets would go from where they are now, complete non-contenders, to absolute contenders if they add Howard. As of now, I'd say that's worth it.
Think about some of the truly horrible contracts given out to guys who were never going to be worth it.
Posted on 5/20/13 at 8:58 am to eumont
quote:
You don't really understand the concept of salary cap, do you?
You must've missed the sarcasm, mr salary cap
Posted on 5/20/13 at 9:02 am to shel311
quote:
It's obviously all speculation, but I think a lot of people would say the Rockets would go from where they are now, complete non-contenders, to absolute contenders if they add Howard. As of now, I'd say that's worth it.
Well I think you have to be careful there, how much do you have to give up to get him? If you gut half your roster then I do not think it is worth it.
I'm not arguing as if my word is fact, just giving my opinion. However, you are in the playoffs, close game, 4th quarter, final two minutes you are down by three is Dwight the guy you want in the game for you?
Posted on 5/20/13 at 9:05 am to bigpetedatiga
quote:There is WAY too much emphasis put on this IMO.
I'm not arguing as if my word is fact, just giving my opinion. However, you are in the playoffs, close game, 4th quarter, final two minutes you are down by three is Dwight the guy you want in the game for you?
Some teams go an entire playoffs and win a title without ever needing the guy to make the big shot in the closing seconds. And if he's playing in Houston, it's irrelevant because that's what Harden is there for.
quote:I'd give up a lot. A roster starting with Dwight and Harden and workable pieces is better than the current roster.
Well I think you have to be careful there, how much do you have to give up to get him? If you gut half your roster then I do not think it is worth it
This post was edited on 5/20/13 at 9:06 am
Posted on 5/20/13 at 9:11 am to bigpetedatiga
quote:
I'm not arguing as if my word is fact, just giving my opinion. However, you are in the playoffs, close game, 4th quarter, final two minutes you are down by three is Dwight the guy you want in the game for you?
I certainly want him in the game for his defense. I don't want to give him the ball but aside from the ending of Blue Chips you rarely want to give the big man the ball in game ending scenarios.
To easy to double or force him to the line to make free throws.
You want a guy who can create his own shot in that scenario. For the Rockets it would be Harden.
Posted on 5/20/13 at 9:12 am to shel311
quote:
I'd give up a lot. A roster starting with Dwight and Harden and workable pieces is better than the current roster.
I disagree, I respect your opinion, I just disagree.
He is not an offensive power and has declined on defense, whether it was due to injuries or interest.
quote:
There is WAY too much emphasis put on this IMO.
Some teams go an entire playoffs and win a title without ever needing the guy to make the big shot in the closing seconds. And if he's playing in Houston, it's irrelevant because that's what Harden is there for.
Look at what SA did against GSW and Bogut. It can make a difference, if you win every game by 10 then its not a big deal, but in tight situations, it can have a big effect.
Posted on 5/20/13 at 9:15 am to bigpetedatiga
quote:And if he comes back 100% this year and is the Dwight of 2 years ago?
He is not an offensive power and has declined on defense, whether it was due to injuries or interest
How else is Houston going to become a contender? Short of answering Chris Paul, I just don't see a better option.
quote:
Look at what SA did against GSW and Bogut. It can make a difference, if you win every game by 10 then its not a big deal, but in tight situations, it can have a big effect
Pretty sure the Heat won a title last year without ever having that big moment in any playoff game. And anyway, nowadays, that moment is basically exclusively reserved for wing players who can create.
This post was edited on 5/20/13 at 9:16 am
Posted on 5/20/13 at 9:27 am to shel311
quote:
Pretty sure the Heat won a title last year without ever having that big moment in any playoff game. And anyway, nowadays, that moment is basically exclusively reserved for wing players who can create.
Who on the Heat shot free throws like DH?
There were also many tight moments in the finals and Lebron, Wade, and Bosh made their free throws.
Also, it doesn't matter who has the ball until the final two minutes of the 2nd and 4th. If its a close game, you are trying to get back into the game, or slow down the other team, just put in the 12th man and have him hack away (see SA v GSW).
quote:
And if he comes back 100% this year and is the Dwight of 2 years ago?
Still limited on offense which still wouldn't be so bad except for him insisting on being "the man."
quote:
How else is Houston going to become a contender? Short of answering Chris Paul, I just don't see a better option.
I would try to sign him straight out, but I wouldn't gut the roster to do it. Even with him at 100% do not know if this team could overtake the Heat, Memphis, or OKC.
Posted on 5/20/13 at 9:33 am to bigpetedatiga
quote:Again, most bigs don't have the ball in that spot anyway.
Who on the Heat shot free throws like DH?
There were also many tight moments in the finals and Lebron, Wade, and Bosh made their free throws.
Also, it doesn't matter who has the ball until the final two minutes of the 2nd and 4th. If its a close game, you are trying to get back into the game, or slow down the other team, just put in the 12th man and have him hack away (see SA v GSW).
quote:20 ppg on near 60% from the field, I'll take that limited offense any day.
Still limited on offense
quote:What?
which still wouldn't be so bad except for him insisting on being "the man."
quote:Here's the rub, you don't know, none of us do. But we do know is that not getting him certainly doesn't allow Houston to overtake those teams.
Even with him at 100% do not know if this team could overtake the Heat, Memphis, or OKC
Posted on 5/20/13 at 9:44 am to shel311
quote:
Again, most bigs don't have the ball in that spot anyway.
Like I have stated several times, it does not matter until the final two minutes of the fourth quarter. If he is on the court, they can just foul him and put him on the line with or without the ball.
quote:
20 ppg on near 60% from the field, I'll take that limited offense any day.
Last year he averaged 17.1 for his career he has averaged 18.3 put i'm nit picking.
He may get you 30 against inferior competion, but what about against elite competition. He will not do that against the Thunder, Bulls, Grizzles, spurs of the world.
Against the spurs (who have no dominant center) he went 7pts, 25pts, and 16pts.
Oh, and lets not forget about intentionally getting thrown out of game four.
quote:
What?
When I say he wants to be the man, i'm referring to him stating that he wants the ball at the end of games and to have the offense run through him. That is a clusterfrick of an idea. He has no true post moves, is a turnover machine in the paint, and is not a very good passer.
quote:
Here's the rub, you don't know, none of us do. But we do know is that not getting him certainly doesn't allow Houston to overtake those teams.
Fair enough, i'll give you that.
This post was edited on 5/20/13 at 9:46 am
Posted on 5/20/13 at 9:53 am to bigpetedatiga
quote:Not bad for not being the #1 guy in the offense, only 1 point less per game when the offense didn't run through him.
Last year he averaged 17.1 for his career he has averaged 18.3 put i'm nit picking
quote:Doesn't the offensive team get the ball back in that situation, isn't that the rule?
Like I have stated several times, it does not matter until the final two minutes of the fourth quarter. If he is on the court, they can just foul him and put him on the line with or without the ball
quote:
Fair enough, i'll give you that
IMO, everything else we posted is now irrelevant LOL. Again, IMO, winning is ALL that matters. He gives them a better chance to win. Therefore, if they have a chance to grab him, grab him.
This post was edited on 5/20/13 at 9:54 am
Posted on 5/20/13 at 10:02 am to shel311
quote:
Doesn't the offensive team get the ball back in that situation, isn't that the rule?
only when its two minutes or less in the 2nd or 4th quarter. Either way its straight up.
quote:
IMO, everything else we posted is now irrelevant LOL. Again, IMO, winning is ALL that matters. He gives them a better chance to win. Therefore, if they have a chance to grab him, grab him.
I agree, just not at the expense of half your roster.
Posted on 5/20/13 at 11:29 am to bigpetedatiga
Ok, the bickering between you two has been pretty good honestly. I think both sides make good points honestly
Who would the Rockets be giving up most likely to be able to give Howard his deal? And if they do a sign and trade, who would be involved. I think a starting 5 of Lin, JH, Parsons, Asik and Howard, if one can be a PW, could be very good, then fill in the role players and the team could contend.
However, I also feel that the core nucleus now, with 2 or 3 guys for 4-8 million a year could make them contenders as well, if they get the right pieces. I don't know who those pieces are, but I do trust the Rockets front office to make good moves. They put that team in a position to succeed often
Who would the Rockets be giving up most likely to be able to give Howard his deal? And if they do a sign and trade, who would be involved. I think a starting 5 of Lin, JH, Parsons, Asik and Howard, if one can be a PW, could be very good, then fill in the role players and the team could contend.
However, I also feel that the core nucleus now, with 2 or 3 guys for 4-8 million a year could make them contenders as well, if they get the right pieces. I don't know who those pieces are, but I do trust the Rockets front office to make good moves. They put that team in a position to succeed often
Posted on 5/20/13 at 11:40 am to shel311
quote:As someone who watched 90% of Rockets games this year, we can absolutely be a contender without Howard. In my estimation, we were missing two things from being a top 4 team in the West this year. A power forward, and experience.
How else is Houston going to become a contender?
Josh Smith can be had without giving up any of our major pieces. I highly doubt Atlanta gives him a max contract (unless they have a S&T set up), so he should take a serious look into free agency. Houston has the cap space to sign him straight up. He is the perfect power forward for our offense. He fits what we want to do in every way and will be a top 5 power forward in our scheme. Smith fixes our power forward problem.
The only problem left is experience. So many time last year, Houston absolutely collapsed down the stretch or had periods where they looked lost on the court. You could see their inexperience in the last 3-4 minutes of most games (we started to improve here a little towards the end of the year). We had one of the two youngest teams in the league and still made the playoffs in a very tough Western Conference. What this team needs is to continue to improve and work on playing smart. This will come with time. And I would worry very much that a player with Howard's attitude would significantly slow this learning process for the rest of the roster.
Adding Josh Smith may not make us a championship contender next year, but it will set us up to make a real run in 2-3 years. A starting 5 of Beverly, Harden, Parsons, Smith, and Asik will make the playoffs every year they are together. And in 2-3 seasons, they will be in a position make a legitimate run.
I realize I am biased towards the Rockets, so perhaps I am underestimating how far away we are from being an elite team. But I maintain the stance that I would rather have Asik at an 8 mil cap hit than Howard at a max contract. This allows us to bring in an elite PF, which was our only weak position this season. With an elite PF and time for this young team to grow, the Rockets could have everything they need to compete with every team in the league.
This post was edited on 5/20/13 at 11:43 am
Posted on 5/20/13 at 11:46 am to funnystuff
quote:
How else is Houston going to become a contender?
As someone who watched 90% of Rockets games this year, we can absolutely be a contender without Howard. In my estimation, we were missing two things from being a top 4 team in the West this year. A power forward, and experience.
Josh Smith can be had without giving up any of our major pieces. I highly doubt Atlanta gives him a max contract (unless they have a S&T set up), so he should take a serious look into free agency. Houston has the cap space to sign him straight up. He is the perfect power forward for our offense. He fits what we want to do in every way and will be a top 5 power forward in our scheme. Smith fixes our power forward problem.
The only problem left is experience. So many time last year, Houston absolutely collapsed down the stretch or had periods where they looked lost on the court. You could see their inexperience in the last 3-4 minutes of most games (we started to improve here a little towards the end of the year). We had one of the two youngest teams in the league and still made the playoffs in a very tough Western Conference. What this team needs is to continue to improve and work on playing smart. This will come with time. And I would worry very much that a player with Howard's attitude would significantly slow this learning process for the rest of the roster.
Adding Josh Smith may not make us a championship contender next year, but it will set us up to make a real run in 2-3 years. A starting 5 of Beverly, Harden, Parsons, Smith, and Asik will make the playoffs every year they are together. And in 2-3 seasons, they will be in a position make a legitimate run.
I realize I am biased towards the Rockets, so perhaps I am underestimating how far away we are from being an elite team. But I maintain the stance that I would rather have Asik at an 8 mil cap hit than Howard at a max contract. This allows us to bring in an elite PF, which was our only weak position this season. With an elite PF and time for this young team to grow, the Rockets could have everything they need to compete with every team in the league.
I think I may be in that boat too, but do you say no to Howard if he and Asik can both be in the game at the same time? Howard doesn't run what Houston wants to do necessarily, but the guy is uber talented
I think gaining a power forward is important, although i'm not sure Smith is really the guy myself. I heard this am that Griffin may become available at some time, although i'm not saying he's the guy either.
I trust the front office in Houston to make the right move, but I think a core of Beverly/lin/parsons/harden/Asik can do good things without any other huge pieces, but sometimes a huge piece can make the transition from good to great faster
Posted on 5/20/13 at 11:50 am to bigpetedatiga
quote:excuse me mr lifelong magic fan and dwight hater, how is life after dwight treating you? that trip to the finals and perennial playoff appearances must feel like an eternity ago. im sure you and your brethren would take him back in a second if he came crawling.
bigpetedatiga
is howard flawed? of course he is. but hes got a skill set that is extremely rare on this planet, and despite his shortcomings, was an exceptional basketball player and still can be one going forward
and as for the late game free throw problem, there are quite a few bigs that have won many titles, despite their pedestrian free throw percentage. shaq and tim duncan come to mind. once again, its not an ideal situation, but you can make it work.
Posted on 5/20/13 at 11:52 am to jacks40
quote:
Blue Chips you rarely want to give the big man the ball in game ending scenarios.
Posted on 5/20/13 at 11:56 am to funnystuff
quote:i dont think you are going overboard on what this rockets team has the potential to be, but i think living in a dream world if you think josh smith is the game changer youre portraying him to be. ATL has massive cap room, and they dont want to give josh smith a max deal and build around him. what does that tell you? it means theyve spent everyday of the last 8 years with him, and know hes not their guy. that speaks volumes to me. on top of the 21.5 foot fall away shots he falls in love with.
I realize I am biased towards the Rockets, so perhaps I am underestimating how far away we are from being an elite team.
Posted on 5/20/13 at 12:01 pm to Buckeye06
quote:I agree with this absolutely and unequivocally. If they make a run at Howard, I will take this to be a sign that, in the best estimation available, his mind and body are both right for him to be an elite player and teammate. I do not believe that to be the case now, but I have enough faith in this front office to change my opinion if they make a play at Howard.
I trust the front office in Houston to make the right move
For the time being though, I would be very hesitant to put Howard and Asik on the court at the same time. As good as both are at defending in the paint, I would be very nervous about our ability to defend teams who can spread it out. In addition, I'd worry that our offense would stagnate with two players who don't have much of an offensive game outside of the paint.
That said, if our FO makes the moves to put this lineup together, I will assume that they see a way in which it will work. If nothing else, Morey has earned my trust as a GM, just as Mchale has earned it as a coach. If our lineup next year is Beverly/Lin, Harden, Parsons, Asik, and Howard, I will be excited about it because it means that Morey and Mchale believe they have figured out a way to make that lineup mesh. If that can be done, it certainly has the talent needed. I just don't see a strategy which will allow this talent to compromise an elite team. Smith just seems like a more straightforward fix.
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