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braindeadboxer
LSU Fan
Utopia
Member since Nov 2011
5015 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

I just lost my bid for Treasurer. I lost to one of the banquet chair chicks.


You have plenty time left. Just stay visible.

ETA: I lost my first election as well.



This post was edited on 4/18 at 10:09 pm


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kingbob
LSU Fan
St. Amant, LA
Member since Nov 2010
13934 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


Who are you working for now? I've got an internship with Woodward Design Build in NOLA lined up for the summer, but I'd like to get into industrial construction. I've schmoozing Cajun and MMR to try to line up a part time internship next fall sense I'm not in Tiger Band any more.

:continued hijack:






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braindeadboxer
LSU Fan
Utopia
Member since Nov 2011
5015 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


Email me




This post was edited on 4/18 at 10:22 pm


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kingbob
LSU Fan
St. Amant, LA
Member since Nov 2010
13934 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


:endhijack:
You can continue discussing the merits of an indivisible nation verses the right of self-determination.






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Gmorgan4982
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
96443 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


The whole idea of a "right to secede" is insane.





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228Tiger
LSU Fan
Harrison County
Member since Feb 2012
12112 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

Are Southerners who fly confederate flags from their trailer porches hypocrites for shouting "USA! USA! USA!" at sporting events featuring American teams?




When you're chained up as a white apologist reenacting being a slave while some black guy is whipping you, can i get in a lick?






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BeeFense5
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Kenna
Member since Jul 2010
17008 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

LSU CM?








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Macavity92
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2004
3537 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


One can defend a right to something without wishing to partake in it ("I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it").

Is every person holding dual citizenship a hypocrite for loving both countries?






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souldog
LSU Fan
Johnstown, PA
Member since Jul 2007
995 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

The whole idea of a "right to secede" is insane.


Agreed. We've gone over this for 150+ years. There are three ways to "secede", or remove oneself from a signed agreement. The first is by the courts (NO!), the second is by an amendment (NO!), and the third is by force. Good luck taking on the US Armed Forces to do that.

If you notice that is one choice for each of the three legislative branches for the pro-secessionists here. Which of those three is even a REMOTE possibility? Really.







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Rex
LSU Fan
Here, there, and nowhere
Member since Sep 2004
52401 posts
 Online 

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

One can defend a right to something without wishing to partake in it

Sure, but no can one honestly pledge indivisibility while also defending a right to divide.







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kingbob
LSU Fan
St. Amant, LA
Member since Nov 2010
13934 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


You must not know GMorgan as a poster very well.





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Walking the Earth
Member since Feb 2013
2656 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

Sure, but no can one honestly pledge indivisibility while also defending a right to divide.


Well, you're also pledging loyalty to a piece of fabric and declaring the nation to be "under God" so I'm guessing that there are very few pledge reciters that are not hypocritical on some small level.







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Macavity92
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2004
3537 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

Sure, but no can one honestly pledge indivisibility while also defending a right to divide.


Why not? One may see secession as a right, or at least an arguable right, but never intend to take advantage of it. Moreover, the pledge is not for indivisibility it is for allegiance. Indivisibility is a descriptor of the "Republic, for which she stands."






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Walking the Earth
Member since Feb 2013
2656 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


Exactly.

And even if you consider the pledge to actually be some sort of oath, if one believes that the tenets of the pledge have been violated then one is no longer hypothetically bound to have any allegiance.

In this hypothetical, secession is an option for a scenario in which the republic is no longer the same one to which the reciter pledged his or her allegiance. For instance if the "and liberty and justice for all" no longer applies in your view.



This post was edited on 4/18 at 11:36 pm


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Macavity92
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2004
3537 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


Correct. And perhaps more than a few of you remember these words...

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.






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TerryDawg03
Georgia Fan
Member since Dec 2012
1428 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

Agreed. We've gone over this for 150+ years. There are three ways to "secede", or remove oneself from a signed agreement. The first is by the courts (NO!), the second is by an amendment (NO!), and the third is by force. Good luck taking on the US Armed Forces to do that. If you notice that is one choice for each of the three legislative branches for the pro-secessionists here. Which of those three is even a REMOTE possibility? Really.


4) Or the right that is inherent in the document that granted the federal government power. Read The Federalist Papers. After, I suggest Thomas DiLorenzo's works.

quote:

Lincoln falsely claimed that the states were never sovereign and that the union created the states, not the other way around. (But as Joe Sobran has remarked, the notion that the union is older than the states makes as much sense as the idea that a marriage can be older than either spouse. It is impossible for a union of two things to be older than either of the things it is a union of).


Also what three legislative branches are you referring to?

And just for fun, the Pledge's author was a socialist: LINK

quote:

Francis Bellamy said that one purpose of the Pledge of Allegiance was to help accomplish his lifelong goal of making his cousin's socialist fantasy a reality in America. He further stated that the "true reason for allegiance to the Flag" was to indoctrinate American school children in the false history of the American founding that was espoused first by Daniel Webster and, later, by Abraham Lincoln.






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Rex
LSU Fan
Here, there, and nowhere
Member since Sep 2004
52401 posts
 Online 

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


quote:

Why not?

By the very meaning of the word: indivisible = incapable of being divided. The South could not secede according to that pledge, for example, because they were legally incapable of it. That's why I asked when and how this notion of "indivisibility" became a Southern ideal.







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Radiojones
USA Fan
The Twilight Zone
Member since Feb 2007
6052 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


Troll





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Walking the Earth
Member since Feb 2013
2656 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


If we're talking about the Confederates being hypocrites, they weren't. The pledge came decades after the Civil War.

Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Plenty of posters have indicated instances where you can believe in the concept of secession but acknowledge the republic in its current form to be indivisible in a non binding oral statement.

Like SFP noted on the first page, the real trick is seceding and getting away with it.



This post was edited on 4/18 at 11:47 pm


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Macavity92
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2004
3537 posts

re: Are those who defend the CSA's "right to secede" hypocrites


Please explain how indivisibility is being pledged.





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