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Message
re: Gareth Bale > Lionel Messi > Cristiano Ronaldo
Posted on 2/25/13 at 5:57 pm to SwaggerCopter
Posted on 2/25/13 at 5:57 pm to SwaggerCopter
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:05 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
I'm seriously deluded because I have an opinion that doesn't line up with yours? Cool. Maybe if you watched a league outside of england and the powerhouses in spain you would see that other players exist too.
We are talking about on form players. Neither Messi OR Ronaldo are in the discussion as far as I'm concerned. Ribs has been ON FIRE for bayern and Bale has been unreal. They are my top 2 on form players at the moment.
We are talking about on form players. Neither Messi OR Ronaldo are in the discussion as far as I'm concerned. Ribs has been ON FIRE for bayern and Bale has been unreal. They are my top 2 on form players at the moment.
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:05 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
That list is based on current form right? Suarez is having a great year, but no way is he in Top 10 otherwise. Also wouldn't put him in same tier as Falcao either. Falcao should be right around RVP.
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:19 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
1. Messi
2. Cristiano
3-6 in no particular order:
Iniesta
Pirlo
RVP
Xavi
7-10 in no particular order:
Suarez
Bale
Busquets
Falcao
Not to say your list is right or wrong or whatever, but I wish there was also room for Zlatan, Ozil, Reus, Gotze, Cavani, etc. I love how there are so many world class footballers.
Also, we did not even mention any defenders or keepers. I love that there are truly like 25 world class players and no other sport even comes close to that.
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:19 pm to xavierTIGER
quote:
If you take Messi out of the Barca system and put him in a mid-table club in most other European leagues, he wouldn't be the same player.
I don't have a problem with you having the opinion that Ronaldo is better than Messi, but this statement is moronic. It's almost on par with Andy Gray's, "I'd like to see him try to score on a rainy Tuesday night in Stoke." Ronaldo has great teammates at Madrid and is put in a position to succeed by a great manager. He had great teammates at United, and was put in a position to succeed by a great manager. Same goes for Messi at Barça.
Messi will likely play for only one club (albeit a super club) in his prime, but that doesn't diminish from his ungodly talents. Messi and Ronaldo wouldn't score as many goals as they do now if they played for West Brom, but they damn sure would be the top scorers in the Premier League based on talent alone.
Maradona had the same physical attributes and similar abilities as Messi, and led a mediocre Napoli to that club's only successes.
ETA: Alan Shearer is the perfect example of a world class player who opted to play for a perpetually mediocre team, in his case Newcastle.
This post was edited on 2/25/13 at 6:32 pm
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:19 pm to acgeaux129
This is not directed at anyone in particular, but before people get hurt feelings, everyone on here has opinions about the best players in the world and we certainly aren't going to all agree. But most regular posters watch enough football to form some well based opinions...we don't have a lot of idiots that post here.
Obviously we disagree on this...I'm interested in what you think is holding him back from being a top 10 or even top 5 player?
quote:
Suarez is having a great year, but no way is he in Top 10 otherwise.
Obviously we disagree on this...I'm interested in what you think is holding him back from being a top 10 or even top 5 player?
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:28 pm to lesismeaurx
quote:
Maybe if you watched a league outside of england and the powerhouses in spain you would see that other players exist too.
Nailed it!
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:31 pm to xavierTIGER
I'm asking about the time frame. Are we referring to best form in the last 3 months or even the last 6 months? Or are we asking about who the best player is, a question that involves a larger timeframe. If we go back past the current season, it's laughable to include Suarez. If we are talking about a pretty small time horizon, which I'm assuming Beast means, then I would guess so. But then again, he included Pirlo, which I doubt many of us have seen play consistently since the summer.
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:31 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
10 is a very limited number. It's tough because there are more than 10 world class players in the world, so naturally some have to be omitted.
So tough to do. Defenders are so much tougher to grade than outfield players, mostly because the metrics aren't nearly as accessible than with offensive players. I thought about defenders to add, but in the end decided to take the safe way out.
quote:
Also, we did not even mention any defenders or keepers. I love that there are truly like 25 world class players and no other sport even comes close to that.
So tough to do. Defenders are so much tougher to grade than outfield players, mostly because the metrics aren't nearly as accessible than with offensive players. I thought about defenders to add, but in the end decided to take the safe way out.
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:40 pm to acgeaux129
It's a mixture of multiple things. What some people in this thread don't realize, and it's probably the ones who just don't know me well enough, is that I'm not just throwing names together onto a list. I watch an embarrassing amount of soccer on a weekly basis. There's a reason I have Pirlo or Falcao on the list and not Ibrahimovic. It's because I have watched, maybe, a single French league match where Zlatan was involved. So naturally, and rightly so, I didn't just throw him into the top 10. Compare that to Pirlo, Falcao or Busquets (players in foreign leagues who I watch at least on a bi-weekly basis) and my list begins to make more sense.
And concerning Suarez, he has scored 46 goals in his first 89 matches for Liverpool. A statistic few other foreign players in the history of the league can come close to matching through their first couple seasons at an English club. Suarez has broken scoring milestones faster than other notorious Liverpool scorers, something that should not be taken lightly. Many put him in or right on the edge of the world class category before he was even brought to Merseyside from Ajax, where he scored 81 goals in 110 league matches. In particular I remember Glass telling me at Finn's that Suarez would be a world class player within two years at Liverpool.
And concerning Suarez, he has scored 46 goals in his first 89 matches for Liverpool. A statistic few other foreign players in the history of the league can come close to matching through their first couple seasons at an English club. Suarez has broken scoring milestones faster than other notorious Liverpool scorers, something that should not be taken lightly. Many put him in or right on the edge of the world class category before he was even brought to Merseyside from Ajax, where he scored 81 goals in 110 league matches. In particular I remember Glass telling me at Finn's that Suarez would be a world class player within two years at Liverpool.
This post was edited on 2/25/13 at 6:42 pm
Posted on 2/25/13 at 6:52 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Compare that to Pirlo, Falcao or Busquets (players in foreign leagues who I watch at least on a bi-weekly basis) and my list begins to make more sense.
You watch Serie A regularly? I thought most were like me and don't care to watch Italian football at all. I'll keep it on when it comes on in the afternoons on FSC, but honestly would never watch it that consistently.
quote:
And concerning Suarez, he has scored 46 goals in his first 89 matches for Liverpool. A statistic few other foreign players in the history of the league can come close to matching through their first couple seasons at an English club.
Right, but that's because this year he has been particularly explosive. Last season, though, I know he was pretty disappointing (but might have battled an injury IIRC?). In my uninformed opinion, I just don't see him being on par with the others, particularly Falcao. Though I might even argue Falcao being Top 3...I think the third spot is incredibly open and subject to debate.
edits for myriad of typos and clarification
This post was edited on 2/25/13 at 6:59 pm
Posted on 2/25/13 at 7:00 pm to acgeaux129
quote:
You watch Serie A regularly? I thought most were like me and don't care to watch Italian football at all. I'll keep it on when it comes on in the afternoons on FSC, but honestly would never watch it that consistently.
Fairly regularly. I've probably watched 15-20 Italian matches this season (outside of CL). Which is almost a match a week.
quote:
Last season, though, I know he was pretty disappointing (but might have battled an injury IIRC?).
He was suspended for 9 matches. Still scored 17 goals in all competitions, which is fairly impressive since it was his first full season in England. He's obviously hitting stride this year because A. our current style suits him much, much more than Kenny's and B. He is now fully adjusted to the league.
Posted on 2/25/13 at 7:04 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Oh yeah. If Suarez is mentioned, why is Kun always so noticeably absent from these discussions?
Posted on 2/25/13 at 7:06 pm to acgeaux129
Because he has as many league goals as Olivier Giroud!
Posted on 2/25/13 at 7:09 pm to acgeaux129
Well, Suarez has twice as many league goals and 12 more goals overall (for club). Aguero isn't the best striker on City's roster right now, and he wouldn't break into any top XIs this season. He had an injury spell early on, but overall he hasn't progressed from 11/12 to 12/13.
This post was edited on 2/25/13 at 7:11 pm
Posted on 2/25/13 at 7:11 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Yeah, this year. But he balled hard last year and was pretty much the man of the League along with RVP.
And Giroud should be in the discussion too IMO FWIW.
eta: I was joking about Giroud
And Giroud should be in the discussion too IMO FWIW.
eta: I was joking about Giroud
This post was edited on 2/25/13 at 7:21 pm
Posted on 2/25/13 at 7:45 pm to acgeaux129
yeah, Giroud has talent and will continue to adjust and improve. He'll never be in this convo though. Wilshere though...
Posted on 2/25/13 at 7:45 pm to acgeaux129
Double post!
This post was edited on 2/25/13 at 7:46 pm
Posted on 2/25/13 at 8:28 pm to Friend of OBUDan
It makes me sad the Wilshere is the only player on Arsenal's roster who even has a shot of ever making it onto one of these lists
Posted on 2/25/13 at 8:33 pm to Friend of OBUDan
If we were talking about a Top 10 list for players who methodically distribute snot rockets out of each nostril in response to appreciative applause after narrowly missing on a volley or corner header, he would be at least Top 3 IMO.
And I like Wilshere a lot. There are quite a few CAMs not listed that would go ahead of him IMO.
And I like Wilshere a lot. There are quite a few CAMs not listed that would go ahead of him IMO.
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