Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution-- - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

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Bayou Sam
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Snake and Jake's Christmas Club
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4957 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

does anyone actually suspect that the Pope is guilty of covering up or sex abuse himself.


Um, yes. This is a matter of public record.






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38968 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

Um, yes. This is a matter of public record.



explain






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Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120574 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


I don't know about any substantial evidence but he was a defendent in a cover up case

It should be noted that it was a civil case and not a criminal case

So the accusation has been there for quite some time. I just don't know if there is any merit to the accusation






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38968 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

I don't know about any substantial evidence but he was a defendent in a cover up case

It should be noted that it was a civil case and not a criminal case

So the accusation has been there for quite some time. I just don't know if there is any merit to the accusation



I shot down one of another posters accusation of Ratzinger covering up a sex abuse. The reason being the Vicar General made the decision on the reassignment without telling the Bishop (Ratzinger) this issue at hand. So Ratzinger would have gotten a reassignment of a priest come across his desk with no knowledge that he was suggested that he shouldn't be with Kids. So while he signed off on the reassignment he didn't know that his reassignment was moving a sex abuse priest.

the post never responded to my defense.






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Bayou Sam
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Snake and Jake's Christmas Club
Member since Aug 2009
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re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


LINK

Ratzinger is certainly not the worst, but he stalled with Maciel and I don't see him moving against Sodano.






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LegalTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2006
1098 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


By now the evidence is overwhelming that the RC Church knew for decades that there was a serious problem with a small number of priests engaging in rampant pedophilla and that their policy was first and foremost to protect the institutional church at all costs. They did this at the diocesan level so as to insulate the church higher-ups with plausible deniability, but the Curia in the Vatican was never in the dark, as it was Ratzinger himself who personally ensured that it was his Curial office that reviewed every case of alleged pedophillia and requests for defrocking.

The Vatican could put all this behind it if it just acknowledged the policy was a bad one and that now allegations will be reported to local authorities and abusive priests will be defrocked. But, being the bureaucracy that it is, the church leaders seem to care more for the institution than the members, so this saga will continue and get worse and worse until something drastic happens, like a criminal warrant or indictment is issued against this pope and future popes.

The Pope and Cardinals like Law, Mahoney and Sodano will have to either face the charges or imprison themselves in the Vatican in order to avoid jail or prosecution. It will be infinitely worse for the Church than it is now. Will be interesting to watch unfold in the years to come.

I feel bad for the true believers like the few in this thread who are still burying their heads in the sand and looking for ways to still interpret all of this in a light most favorable to their church.






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Bestbank Tiger
Tulane Fan
Landmass
Member since Jan 2005
19586 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

Weakland is the one who embezzled money from the church to pay off someone who was accusing him of sexual assault (honestly, I don't remember the age of the accuser).


I remember that case. He groped an adult seminary candidate.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5487 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


Who, if not the Pope himself, is harboring the criminal Cardinal Bernard Francis Law?? who if not the Pope could take the ring off of Cardinal Mahoney?

We see in this thread the reason the Church cannot solve this problem.

One guy called me a Catholic hater. I would be a Catholic convert but for the fact I will not allow a man-a sinner-to have say over whether or not I should have access to the body and blood of Christ and to make a conversion I must not only declare my belief in Christ but must also pledge my subservience to the leaders of the Church. Now cradle Catholic never think of those things as adults. I am not willing to stand to allow a Cardinal Law or a Cardinal Mahoney or a Pope to say that I cannot have access to the Body and Blood. The whole idea that the transubstantiation takes place is, IMHO, discredited when men can decide if they wish who can and cannot have the sacrament. Christ didn't deny Judas for example. Now that said back to the point.

Another guy attempts to demonstrate that there are protestant perverts too. DUH. The difference is the protestant handling of the perverts. I can promise you that in Baptist churches in Louisiana a preacher found to be a pedophile would fear for his life--he certainly wouldn't expect a reassignment and a lifetime of support.

None of this changes the fact that Benedict does in fact risk prosecution and certainly would have to answer subpoenas in many jurisdictions. A quick google search show articles about several US jurisdictions, Dutch courts, German courts and Irish courts that have attempted to subpoena the Pope. Would criminal charges arise from those subpoenas arise? I don't know.

Why Catholics want to put up with this behavior from their leadership is beyond me. Why they don't insist these Cardinals are excommunicated is puzzling to me.

I would say the Catholics that question these things and stand up to insist things like this are addressed properly are the Catholic lovers. The ones that cling to pay, pray and obey are the ones hurting the Church.

I want things cleaned up. No Christian wants to the see the largest Church in the world in such turmoil.




This post was edited on 2/19 at 9:15 pm


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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38968 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

. I am not willing to stand to allow a Cardinal Law or a Cardinal Mahoney or a Pope to say that I cannot have access to the Body and Blood. The whole idea that the transubstantiation takes place is, IMHO, discredited when men can decide if they wish who can and cannot have the sacrament. Christ didn't deny Judas for example. Now that said back to the point.


this is the reason you can't have communion in our Church, its pretty simple. IF you don't believe that Jesus is truly present in the Body and Blood you shouldn't recieve him. We as Catholics believe you must do that publicly. So a Catholic convert who hasn't been confirmed in the Faith can't receive communion, because he hasn't publicly stated that he believes the beliefs of the Catholic Church. IT would be the same thing if I went to your church you had some thing you did which I didn't believe in it wouldn't appropriate for me to do what I didn't believe in in your church. Just like it wouldn't be appropriate for you to receive Jesus when you don't believe he is truly present in the bread and wine.

Its a simple issue of we want those who receive Jesus to believe that they are receiving Jesus this is why, kids can't receive Jesus until the age of reason.

quote:

Why Catholics want to put up with this behavior from their leadership is beyond me. Why they don't insist these Cardinals are excommunicated is puzzling to me.


excommunication is different then what the punish that would come from abusing a child, and actually when a priest abuses a child the punishment is alot more serious then excommunication. It is practically a firing of the priest. Usually (depending on the pope) priest will be defrocked meaning they will have all their faculties removed. That is like being in a specialized Job and then being fired from it and never being allowed to come back into that Job.

Excommunication is what the Church uses to tell her faithful that what she is doing is a serious matter. It doesn't mean if you do something grave the appropriate punishment is excommunication cannon law is alot more complex.

quote:

I want things cleaned up. No Christian wants to the see the largest Church in the world in such turmoil.


dude none of us what this even Catholics. But what you need to understand is that the secular media makes it look like the Church is still going in their evil ways, but this is far from the case. The church especially in the United STates has gotten its act together. You must have an full background check done, psychological testing, just to be considered to enter seminary for the priesthood. Any person who at the same event of a minor, even if they may never interact with that minor he/she MUST be trained what some diocese calls child protection, or safe environment. We also have a process how to deal with abuse cases. The Church has come a LONG way from what it was in the 70s and 80s. We don't mess around with this any more. That is why the abuse rate has gone to almost 0 in the Church.

don't listen to secular media they like to have their own spin to it and try to make money off of scandal. But most of the stuff is just left over cases that just came up from the 70s and it is very rare you see a story of a priest who is currently abusing a child.






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Bestbank Tiger
Tulane Fan
Landmass
Member since Jan 2005
19586 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

this is the reason you can't have communion in our Church, its pretty simple. IF you don't believe that Jesus is truly present in the Body and Blood you shouldn't recieve him. We as Catholics believe you must do that publicly. So a Catholic convert who hasn't been confirmed in the Faith can't receive communion, because he hasn't publicly stated that he believes the beliefs of the Catholic Church. IT would be the same thing if I went to your church you had some thing you did which I didn't believe in it wouldn't appropriate for me to do what I didn't believe in in your church. Just like it wouldn't be appropriate for you to receive Jesus when you don't believe he is truly present in the bread and wine.


What I don't get is why anyone who doesn't believe in the teachings of a church would want to participate in that church's sacraments. Seems silly at best and disrespectful at worst.







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Bayou Sam
LSU Fan
Snake and Jake's Christmas Club
Member since Aug 2009
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re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


Maybe, but I don't really see how this is much different from the general history of the church. Catholics like to go on about how this is the "purest" church since maybe before Constantine, but what I see is a church still clinging to its medieval privileges.

The difference now is the abuses are much smaller, since the church has no real power, but the source is still the same--human "sinfulness" combined with an institution that protects its sanctity and authority above the human law.






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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
10929 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


Isn't 'confession' the prerequisite for repentence and forgiveness? Maybe the Church should PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH. Nobody respects a hypocrite. Then this stuff would go away.

Kinda like Obama's "transparency".






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EthanL
LSU Fan
Auburn,AL
Member since Oct 2011
3157 posts
 Online 

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

Kinda like Obama's "transparency".


It's exponentially worse.

My mother (now in her 60's) told me awhile back about one of her confessional visits when she was 10 years old.

She said that before going to confession, she would make up all kinds of bad things to tell the priest, like 'I stole from my moms purse', or 'I hit my sister', etc. Well one day as she was saying this, the priest asked her if she had done any other 'bad things.' She said no. He continued, asking if she had done 'any bad things with boys.' My mom didn't know how to answer. She said this went on every so often she went to confessional. He would ask about boys, get ever more detailed, asking if she was touching boys in bad places, if she was fantasizing about them, because all that was wrong if she was. My mom finally told her mom the questions she was asked, and that priest basically got a piece of my grandmother's mind.

Now lets assume this priest had noble intentions, since he is a servant of God effectively, and the Catholic Church has such a stellar reputation....what the hell buisness does a grown man, other than a girl's father, have asking her questions like these?? At one point did this abomination of so-called Christians decide that their traditions, policies, rules, and ways, supersede bible precedent?

I bet not one practicing RC can tell me what the bible says about the confessing of sins. You all have just accepted you are doing the right thing



This post was edited on 2/20 at 8:31 am


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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38968 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

She said that before going to confession, she would make up all kinds of bad things to tell the priest, like 'I stole from my moms purse', or 'I hit my sister', etc. Well one day as she was saying this, the priest asked her if she had done any other 'bad things.' She said no. He continued, asking if she had done 'any bad things with boys.' My mom didn't know how to answer. She said this went on every so often she went to confessional. He would ask about boys, get ever more detailed, asking if she was touching boys in bad places, if she was fantasizing about them, because all that was wrong if she was. My mom finally told her mom the questions she was asked, and that priest basically got a piece of my grandmother's mind.


don't know why the priest would do this sounds like an isolated case though.

quote:

Now lets assume this priest had noble intentions, since he is a servant of God effectively, and the Catholic Church has such a stellar reputation....what the hell buisness does a grown man, other than a girl's father, have asking her questions like these?? At one point did this abomination of so-called Christians decide that their traditions, policies, rules, and ways, supersede bible precedent?


isolated incident again and probably doesn't represent the majority of how priests would handle the situatuion but you do bring up a point on how does the Church decide these things, even though we so called supersede bible teaching.

Simple question for you what or who is the source of divine revelation?

your answer to this question will direct my response to it.

We are also slightly getting off topic here

again old man retiring in vatican nothing to see here.






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EthanL
LSU Fan
Auburn,AL
Member since Oct 2011
3157 posts
 Online 

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

don't know why the priest would do this sounds like an isolated case though.


Yours is truly a case of being tone death. Why would a Catholic priest molest boys? Is there a good answer for this?









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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5487 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

this is the reason you can't have communion in our Church, its pretty simple. IF you don't believe that Jesus is truly present in the Body and Blood you shouldn't recieve him. We as Catholics believe you must do that publicly. So a Catholic convert who hasn't been confirmed in the Faith can't receive communion, because he hasn't publicly stated that he believes the beliefs of the Catholic Church


Exactly and I fully understand that. But it not just what one considers the sacrament to be--it is also one's agreement to honor the authority of the Church. I can't for example, say I believe the sacrament to be the Body and Blood of Christ but I refuse to "join" the Church because of pedophile priest. You sell a potential convert on the authority a creep like Mahoney has over access to the sacrament.

quote:

IT would be the same thing if I went to your church you had some thing you did which I didn't believe in it wouldn't appropriate for me to do what I didn't believe in in your church


Is there a Protestant church that denies communion to Christians or even discourages Christians to partake? Maybe I don't know. Not mine.

quote:

excommunication is different then what the punish that would come from abusing a child, and actually when a priest abuses a child the punishment is alot more serious then excommunication. It is practically a firing of the priest. Usually (depending on the pope) priest will be defrocked meaning they will have all their faculties removed. That is like being in a specialized Job and then being fired from it and never being allowed to come back into that Job.

Excommunication is what the Church uses to tell her faithful that what she is doing is a serious matter. It doesn't mean if you do something grave the appropriate punishment is excommunication cannon law is alot more complex.


Good Catholics should be questioning why this man made cannon law is so complex that wholesale covering up of sex abuse is still accommodated and that the guilty are still allowed to to things like help select the Pope.

You can spin the reasoning and make excuses but today Law and Mahoney still enjoy the privileges Cardinals have and are still "leaders of the Church".

Why you support these men is beyond me.






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LegalTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2006
1098 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

again old man retiring in vatican nothing to see here.


I said in my earlier post in this thread that the blind defense by the ardent believers does have me feeling sorry for them, but you are in denial if you really believe the quoted text.






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LegalTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2006
1098 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

man made cannon law


Being raised a Catholic and being a lawyer myself, I never could wrap my head around the notion that Catholics really do have to believe that God is a frickin lawyer in order to believe all the shite wrapped up in that denomination.

I just can't believe in a God that is a lawyer, hence my agnosticism.






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38968 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

Yours is truly a case of being tone death. Why would a Catholic priest molest boys? Is there a good answer for this?



was talking about an experience in confession not a case of child abuse






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5487 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


Catholictigerfan--

Should Catholic laymen condemn, support or ignore the Church allowing Mahoney to participate in the conclave to select the next Pope???






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