Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man. - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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Hugo Stiglitz
USA Fan
Bitch, I'm From Louisiana
Member since Oct 2010
56684 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

the discussion is pretty solid.

agree.

quote:

a true troll continues the argument

respectfully disagree






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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
36966 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


Government manipulated capitalism is imo.





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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

Government manipulated capitalism is imo.

This is ironic. It is capitalism that is manipulating the government.

Ever since Reagan we SO want to blame the government for our ills ('gov't is the problem not the solution'), but WE are the government - unless you are blaming the Constitution itself.

I like the post that claims that government is the problem, and then goes on to say we need to kick the capitalists out of Washington.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292514 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

It is capitalism that is manipulating the government.




this can't exist without a government powerful enough to interfere with markets though

quote:

but WE are the government - unless you are blaming the Constitution itself.

i'm pretty sure he means actual governmental policies and not a political theory discussion about what "government" is







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Gmorgan4982
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
98591 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

Anyone disagree with this?

If so, why?
Because it's nuts.






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CptRusty
New Orleans Saints Fan
We are the ones who knock
Member since Aug 2011
4125 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

It is capitalism that is manipulating the government.


Capitalism is an economic system, it can't manipulate shite. It is corporations which are manipulating the government. This is a failure of government, or more specifically the people in office.

quote:

we SO want to blame the government for our ills ('gov't is the problem not the solution'),


we want to place the blame where it belongs? imagine that

quote:

we need to kick the corporatists out of Washington


fixed






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

this can't exist without a government powerful enough to interfere with markets though

?

If powerful forces in the market want the government to interfere on their behalf, the government has that power.

Your post about capitalism obsessing over service is also wrong. The obsession is over building wealth.

quote:

i'm pretty sure he means actual governmental policies and not a political theory discussion about what "government" is

I see, so we can discuss economic theory, but we must restrict our discussion of government.

As often happens on this board, the economic discussion vis-a-vis capital;ism exists in a vacuum of the laboratoy. In these discussions there never exists 'market failures'.

But ultimately, as in most human systems, there develops a hierarchy in the marketplace with those on top haviong more power than those not on top. This power is often used to influence the policies of the government to favor those on the top of the capitalist hierarchy.

We all must have a belief that all of the competing interests of the powerful capitalists balance out and we are served in the end. That is not the case. One interest that the capitalists have in common is growing wealth. They will collude in order to influence the government to achieve that goal. Why would you even expect otherwise?

SEE: President William McKinley's election






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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
36966 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


We are NOT the government. Utter bull shite. We are given the "option" of voting for someone who will make decisions about how to spend our money which is taken whether we want them to or not. It's essentially the mob minus elections.





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Tiguar
South Alabama Fan
Mobile
Member since Mar 2012
6231 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


disagree.

you get out of it what you put into it.

the same can't be said for communism or other philosophies.

its by no means perfect or completely fair, but it sucks the least and has beneficial side effects like encouraging innovation.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
50514 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

They will collude in order to influence the government
Does that separate Capitalism from other economic systems?






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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
62899 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


Capitalism is simply rewarding an individual based upon his ability to make other individuals happy.





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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1255 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

This is ironic. It is capitalism that is manipulating the government.


Yet he must have larceny in his heart in the first place.

Between government and capitalists, only one's true obligation is representing the people's interests as a whole and as such, shoulders the greater burden of the blame.






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CptRusty
New Orleans Saints Fan
We are the ones who knock
Member since Aug 2011
4125 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

Between government and capitalists, only one's true obligation is representing the people's interests as a whole and as such, shoulders the greater burden of the blame.


very well put. did you come up with that or are you quoting someone?






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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
3478 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


Completely disagree. I do my job better and more efficiently than you can. You do your job more efficiently and better than I can. The exchange of the resulting products and services is capitalism. The exchange is voluntary.





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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1255 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

If powerful forces in the market want the government to interfere on their behalf, the government has that power.

Quite right.

Corruption starts with the concentration of power. Once power is concentrated, corruption will inevitably follow. Don't kill the flies eating the shite as that task will never end. You will run out of bug spray before the world runs out of flies. Instead, remove the shite and the flies will leave on their own.






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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1255 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

quoting someone?


WC Fields mentions larceny in ones heart. The rest is common sense I suppose.






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Mohican
LSU Fan
On a lake in MS
Member since Nov 2012
2173 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

If powerful forces in the market want the government to interfere on their behalf, the government has that power.



The bigger the government the more likely that is to happen and the less transparent it is to the people.


quote:

Your post about capitalism obsessing over service is also wrong. The obsession is over building wealth.


You can't build wealth without there being some demand... some reason for people to make the transaction. Their choice is to give you what they've earned for something in return.

quote:

But ultimately, as in most human systems, there develops a hierarchy in the marketplace with those on top haviong more power than those not on top. This power is often used to influence the policies of the government to favor those on the top of the capitalist hierarchy.


Power vacuums will always be filled - no matter the system of government. But you have to see that this isn't a problem with the economic system but a problem of the government. You have to separate the two and isolate the problem, not throw the baby out with the bathwater. With a bigger, more complex government, the opportunity to collude is greater because government is restrictive by nature.






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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
3478 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

WE are the government


WE stopped being the government when we put career politicians in office. We were the government when ordinary citizens ran for office and won. The elected reps are now nothing more than a ruling class of people, with some ordinary people making the leap every now and then.






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Mohican
LSU Fan
On a lake in MS
Member since Nov 2012
2173 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

Corruption starts with the concentration of power.


Do centralized governments accomplish this concentration of power more efficiently or do competing corporations?

Power vacuums will always be filled. As long as greed is a part of human nature, this will be true.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

We are NOT the government. Utter bull shite. We are given the "option" of voting for someone who will make decisions about how to spend our money which is taken whether we want them to or not. It's essentially the mob minus elections.

Not only are we the government, but we are all capitalists as well.

You mention we get to vote for people to decide for us. Well, what do you think voting is but a way for the people to make a decision?

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" the governed in this case is the People.

So the People govern themselves in our system, the power to govern is NOT a divine right - it is not derived from the power of God. To that end, the first right enumerated for protection under our constitution is "...the right of the people...to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." or, the Right to Free Speech.

In the late 19th century the United States revised their corporate laws and requirements for corporate charters drastically. They no longer had to have public service outside of siomply creating wealth as a primary goal of their charter.

In Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, 1886, the Supreme Court recognized, if not technically decided, the personhood status of the corporation.

In Valeo v Buckley, 1976, the Supreme Court decided that transfer of wealth was equivalent to the excercise of Free Speech.*

Then in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 2010, this 'speech' through transfer of wealth was decided to be unlimited.

So now we have a system whereby the People, to include corporations - or wealth generating entities - govern themselves, largely through Free Speech, which in turn has been decided to include unlimited transfers of wealth to the government as a form of "redress of grievances".

So, Person has Free Speech.
Corporation - now wealth generating entity - is Person.
Transfer of unlimited wealth is speech.

More wealth = more speech, less wealth = less speech.

How can the average citizen, not a corporation, be able to match the level of speech/wealth that an entity specifically designed to create wealth? Who has the influence in our system?

Furthermore, why are our representatives not seen as capitalists? Why do we think we need to seperate the government form capitalists?


*On the court at the time was Lewis F. Powell, Jr. a one-time board member of the Phillip Morris Corp., defending the tobacco industry in numerous law suits, and author of the secret Powell Memorandum (not made public until after his appt to the SCOTUS) calling for corporate America to become more aggressive in molding politics and law in the US - just prior to being appointed to the Supreme Court by Richard Nixon.

Powell Memo (scroll down to find text)






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