Posted byMessage
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
21165 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

Believe it or not, scientists want to prove each other (and themselves) wrong, especially in the case of global warming


Is his a joke? Go read the climate gate emails! I have a link if you need it.






Back to top
BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
17980 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

Link to said studies? Everything I can find says we produce on the order of 100 times more CO2 than natural sources. Even cement production produces more CO2 than all the world's volcanoes combined.


LINK

LINK

quote:

According to a United Nations report published last month, raising animals for food is one of the single biggest causes of global warming, in addition to land degradation and pollution of air and water.


quote:

According to the report, nearly one-fifth of all global warming-causing emissions come from animal agriculture, more than the cumulative impact of all the transportation in the world. This effect occurs because animal wastes and digestion produce methane and nitrous oxide gas, which have 23 and 296 times the heat-trapping effect of carbon dioxide, respectively. Animal agriculture produces 65 percent of the world's nitrous oxide from human-related sources and 37 percent of the methane.


quote:

Seventh, how is CO2 the contributing factor to temperature change, when it has been proven that water vapor affects climate much more than CO2?
Again, link?


LINK

quote:

AGW hypothesis: Carbon dioxide, a weak greenhouse gas, begins warming the planet. This warming evaporates water and so puts water vapor into the atmosphere which amplifies the warming effect. This is called a positive feedback. At first look, this proposition seems logical and reasonable. But other properties of water vapor reduce temperatures and the net effect is a strong negative feedback. A positive feedback tends to destabilize a system, whereas, a negative feedback tends to keep a system in check. Just think for a minute, if water vapor had a net positive feedback effect, this planet would have had run-away global warming long ago. That alone should falsify the positive feedback hypothesis. But let’s look at some observational evidence for a negative feedback.


Actually read that whole link. Very informative.

quote:

It is easy to find "proof" both ways, but the reality is nobody knows for sure


Well that is not what the left says. I agree that man has some impact on Earth. But i do not believe that man can bring about a global climate apocalypse on the globe, the likes of the day after tomorrow. The only way we can impact this earth enough would be to detonate thousands of nuclear bombs across the globe. And even then, Earth will correct itself.

I am not arrogant enough to believe that man will bring about a global winter/summer/arctic/dessert. The fact that it is not known should prove that all this hype about warming/cooling is only a political position. It has NOTHING to do with the environment and EVERYTHING about the government wanting more control over the public, via carbon credits and other bull shite that does not work.

But i do agree, that we must look for better, cleaner ways to produce energy, to be good stewards to this planet and to keep it beautiful for our children. But introducing studies with clearly omitted findings to prove one side is false, and damages your side more than it helps it.






Back to top
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
21165 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


What would it take for some of
quote:

you guys to believe that there is a problem?
Open disclosure of methods and data would be a good start. The CRU and IPCC have worked very hard to hide their work. Nothing 'scientific' about that.

quote:

I feel like it's a religious argument... no matter how much overwhelming evidence there may be, some of you simply cannot be convinced that the climate change isn't 100% natural.
Goes both ways. I've never met any "believer" able to describe the thermodynamic reasons for it happening. They always default to "but these people say its happening". They can't explain the process. They just believe what they are told and accept it on faith. It's no different than believing the Pope.



This post was edited on 2/11 at 4:02 pm


Back to top
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
21165 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

Let's focus on today, rape and pillage the ecosystems, refuse accountability on anything to do with the environment, assume God will give us enough of everything we need so why should we worry, etc...
You're the only person in this thread to suggest this. Strawman much?






Back to top
TigerJeff
LSU Fan
the Emerald Coast
Member since Oct 2006
9188 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


record snow says otherwise





Back to top
doubleb
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
4952 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


By studying coral and coral reefs in and around florida scientists know that the sea level once was much lower (and consequently florida was much larger) and that at one time the sea level was much higher (and consequently Florida was much smaller).

These changes all occured over eons and eons, and we know they will happen again.

When the sea level rises, and floods half of the Florida peninsula, waht will we do? No matter what is happening now, we know that the sea levels are going to change depending on the Earth's climate. It always has.

Now people say prepare for it by building wind mills, wind turbines, solar powered homes, electric cars, and all the other green initiatives that aren't economical right now.

Will this prevent the sea level from rising? No it won't if natural forces have anything to do with it.

Should we be good stewards of the Earth and our resources? Yes we should. Should we do everything within reason to prevent pollution and to prevent the Earth from becoming a toxic cesspool? Yes, certainly.

But paying taxes, buying cars at three times the cost, growing corn to burn instead of to eat, and many of the so called green iniatives aren't going to stop climate change. How could it, the climate has changed over the centuries with and without man. It will certainly change again.






Back to top
Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
7912 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

False. The tree ring "data" you're presumably referring to consists of less than 30 trees all co-located in Yamal. And many contrarian tree data was pitched. Use google.

Firther, saw larger and steeper anomalies in the 1940s but the acolytes at UEA-CRU "reduced" th out of he dataset.

I assume this is what you are referring to? Correct me if wrong.
quote:

Many commentators quoted one email in which Phil Jones said he had used "Mike's Nature trick" in a 1999 graph for the World Meteorological Organization "to hide the decline" in proxy temperatures derived from tree ring analyses when measured temperatures were actually rising. This 'decline' referred to the well-discussed tree ring divergence problem, but these two phrases were taken out of context by climate change sceptics, including US Senator Jim Inhofe and former Governor of Alaska Sarah Palin, as though they referred to some decline in measured global temperatures, even though they were written when temperatures were at a record high.[32] John Tierney, writing in the New York Times in November 2009, said that the claims by sceptics of "hoax" or "fraud" were incorrect, but that the graph on the cover of a report for policy makers and journalists did not show these non-experts where proxy measurements changed to measured temperatures.[33] The final analyses from various subsequent inquiries concluded that in this context 'trick' was normal scientific or mathematical jargon for a neat way of handling data, in this case a statistical method used to bring two or more different kinds of data sets together in a legitimate fashion.[34][35] The EPA notes that in fact, the evidence shows that the research community was fully aware of these issues and that no one was hiding or concealing them.[36]

quote:

No idea what youre talking about with ice cores. Ice cores don't tell us anything about temperatures. As anyone would know that once ice is frozen it is not an indicator of temperature. It doesn't become "more frozen". iC only yield some limited info about what the atmospheric composition might have been at the polar regions. Kind of an isolated case.

Right, ice cores are used to determine CO2 levels, but it is not an "isolated case". CO2 remains in the atmosphere for a very, very long time. Much longer than the time needed for it to disperse very evenly across the globe.
quote:

You've been duped.

Soooo... your sources are more trustworthy than my sources?






Back to top
BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
17980 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

Much longer than the time needed for it to disperse very evenly across the globe.


I don't know about that, or how long CO2 stays in the atmosphere, but i did read, a few minutes ago, that the Earth's water absorbs a great deal of CO2. That coupled with nature, i don't think CO2 hanging around is a bad thing. It is a necessary component of life.






Back to top
Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
21165 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

I assume this is what you are referring to? Correct me if wrong.
Not what I'm talking about at all. Like I said, simply google Yamal Tree Rings or the like.

As far as the 40s bump, if you root around in the leaked data from the first hacking release, actual raw measurement graphs were found. These were the inputs to the URA-CRU historic dataset. But curiously, if you look at that dataset, almost no 'bump' is included.

It's also interesting to denote the geographic distribution of that 'bump' and plot it along with the current anomalies. Hint: they show a pattern.

quote:

Right, ice cores are used to determine CO2 levels, but it is not an "isolated case". CO2 remains in the atmosphere for a very, very long time.
Whi said anything about being isolated by time? The ice core data only samples an isolated geographical region. It's folly to assume that climatic conditions at the poles are consistant with those at the equator. It's a silly assumption, really.

quote:

Soooo... your sources are more trustworthy than my sources?
My source is my knowledge of thermodynamics. If you can present an argument with a proper control volume and energy balance I'd love to hear it. Otherwise you're just parroting evangelists.



This post was edited on 2/11 at 4:24 pm


Back to top
Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
7912 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

LINK
LINK
LINK

You said you had studies, but those are editorials as far as I can tell. Only one of them linked to an actual source study, which I of course haven't read yet, but I will get around to it.
quote:

I agree that man has some impact on Earth. But i do not believe that man can bring about a global climate apocalypse on the globe, the likes of the day after tomorrow.

I don't think we can do anything that extreme, either. All I'm saying is that if we are doing things to amplify natural climate change, we should probably not ignore it. It only takes a few degrees to raise sea levels by a few feet. Do you not think it's possible, if not likely, that all the shite we put into the air can cause a few degrees of warming much faster than would typically happen without our activities? Do you not think that the natural processes that reverse warming trends could be slowed or stopped by the things we do?
quote:

And even then, Earth will correct itself.
The Earth will always correct itself, no doubt about it. The concern is how long it might take, and that part of that correction will be extreme weather that disrupts food supplies, killing us off and solving the problem.






Back to top
CITWTT
LSU Fan
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
31334 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


Did one of these IDIOTS make note of the "Little Ice Age" that only ceased in the 1830s? Those gas guzzling chariots in the Coliseum must have done more damage than first thought, blame Nero.





Back to top
THRILLHO
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2006
32783 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

Am I glad that resources are being devoted to studying it further, that models are being improved, and that if human activity is ultimately deemed to be the cause, that we might be able to mitigate the damage for future generations? Hell yes.


I'm also glad that we're spending money researching global warming and enforcing costly regulations to fight it. It's just a matter of time before the ~4.5 billion people in Asia, Mexico, and South America (where most of the shite we buy is made) all happily jump aboard for the good of the planet.






Back to top
BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
17980 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

You said you had studies, but those are editorials as far as I can tell. Only one of them linked to an actual source study, which I of course haven't read yet, but I will get around to it.


Actually 2 of them have the sources at the bottom of the article. But i don't believe any of them are lacking in knowledge of the data. Again, read for yourself and make your own conclusions.

quote:

Do you not think it's possible, if not likely, that all the shite we put into the air can cause a few degrees of warming much faster than would typically happen without our activities?


Much faster? No. There are too many outside factors that heavily outweigh our production of CO2. Do we contribute to that production? Yes. Is it a bad thing? I don't know. If we don't have a baseline of the temperature or climate we are "supposed" to have, and then weigh that with other CO2 producers, then you can not say that we are impacting the earth "much faster". Every living thing on this planet has CO2. And when that living thing dies and decomposes it emits gases. Forest fires, volcanoes, melting ice, etc... all emit CO2. There are too many other contributing factors that heavily outweigh man made CO2 to say that Man is the reason it's hot today, but cold tomorrow.






Back to top
Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
15106 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


I'm with you. I don't think there is any way little ole man can have an affect on the environment.



















Back to top
BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
17980 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

Archie Bengal Bunker


So you've read through this thread, all of the facts, links posted. Read through all of arguments on both sides, and your response is to post pictures of smog?

Typical reaction of the reactionary idiots of society.

Don't debate facts/figures, post pictures to illicit an emotional response.



This post was edited on 2/11 at 4:43 pm


Back to top
RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
87619 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

Typical conservative bull shite in this thread. Let's focus on today, rape and pillage the ecosystems, refuse accountability on anything to do with the environment, assume God will give us enough of everything we need so why should we worry, etc...



Are you trolling or just stupid?








Back to top
Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
7912 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

Not what I'm talking about at all. Like I said, simply google Yamal Tree Rings or the like.

As far as I can tell it's one guy fibbing about one site. What do regional samples say vs. global samples taken as a whole?
quote:

The ice core data only samples an isolated geographical region. It's folly to assume that climatic conditions at the poles are consistant with those at the equator. It's a silly assumption, really.

Again, I'm not talking about using ice cores to determine climatic conditions. I'm talking about using them to measure atmospheric CO2 levels. Do you not think they can accurately date each layer of ice? Do you not think they can accurately measure the trapped CO2 in each layer? Do you not think actual, measured CO2 levels in air can be compared to the amount captured in ice, either in a sample or through experiment? Or do you not think CO2 stays airborne long enough to cover the globe? I'm having a hard time understanding your issue with this.
quote:

My source is my knowledge of thermodynamics.

Oh, well pardon me. So, the only input to earth's system is the sun, right? What happens to all of that energy? Doesn't a lot of it radiate back out into space? If we didn't have greenhouse gases, such as water vapor and CO2, wouldn't we freeze? Does it stand to reason that the only ways for our long-term climate to change is if there is a change in the amount of greenhouse gases OR a change in the composition of the surface which would radiate more heat back out into space? Am I missing anything? Serious question.






Back to top
THRILLHO
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2006
32783 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

Does it stand to reason that the only ways for our long-term climate to change is if there is a change in the amount of greenhouse gases OR a change in the composition of the surface which would radiate more heat back out into space? Am I missing anything? Serious question.



The sun getting hotter.

LINK /







Back to top
Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
15106 posts

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

So you've read through this thread, all of the facts, links posted. Read through all of arguments on both sides, and your response is to post pictures of smog?


I posted something we can agree on...

quote:

(Posted by BugAC on 2/11/13 at 3:55 p.m. to Korkstand) I agree that man has some impact on Earth.


That's all I was saying.



Also, all I see in this thread is Korkstand laying it down; I don't think he needs any backup.






Back to top
ChineseBandit58
LSU Fan
west of the pines
Member since Aug 2005
9062 posts
 Online 

re: The President's Commision on Global Warming


quote:

I was there. In the 70s it was never warming. It was cooling. Then warming came along. Now 'climate change.'

I was there too. The big boogie man was the coming Ice Age.

I will tell you when I might believe their projections ==== When they run their simulations backward and reproduce the climate patterns we have already seen.

A simulation should be able to run in either direction. Prove its handling of the minor coefficients and processes by running it backwards starting with today's measurements and check if it 'post-dicts' the Little Ice Age of the 1700's or the mideval warming period.






Back to top



Back to top