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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
514 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:03 am to Navytiger74)
quote:
It's military action against hostile forces outside the reach of our civil authorities and legal processes.
You keep blathering on about this and apparently have failed to familiarize yourself with what the memo actually says.
There doesnt have to be any evidence of ongoing hostile actions nor even any specific plans for hostile action.
If some vague "high-ranking" official determines that someone has been "recently" involved in "activities" that could pose a threat are subject to being drone fricked. Note that neither "recently" nor "activities" is defined.
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Bayou Sam 
LSU Fan
Snake and Jake's Christmas Club
Member since Aug 2009
4116 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:03 am to Roaad)
Read the 5th Amendment, then read that, then read what the O administration says it's doing. All these due processes are not the same.
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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
50418 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:04 am to UncleFestersLegs)
quote:
There doesnt have to be any evidence of ongoing hostile actions nor even any specific plans for hostile action.
Hell, association is justification enough.
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Rickety Cricket 
Navy Fan
Premium Member
Member since Aug 2007
25878 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:05 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
i'm not arguing party. i don't support the DEMs or the GOP
Isn't that what you were getting at yesterday? It's horrible for the Executive branch to have this power, whether GOP or Dem. How could anyone think it's a big deal to give the Executive unilateral power to assassinate US citizens?? I mean there's no fricking review of anything, just summary execution based on "evidence" that goes straight from the intelligence agencies to Executive.
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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
50418 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:05 am to Bayou Sam)
quote:
Read the 5th Amendment
Done.
quote:
then read that
Done
quote:
then read what the O administration says it's doing
Donequote:
All these due processes are not the same.
There is no due process for the third. The first 2 have due process and trials that determine guilt or innocence.
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263414 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:07 am to Rickety Cricket)
quote:
Isn't that what you were getting at yesterday? It's horrible for the Executive branch to have this power, whether GOP or Dem.
yes
i mean hell it's horrible for the legislative branch to have it also (but at least there would be a vote then)
quote:
I mean there's no fricking review of anything, just summary execution based on "evidence" that goes straight from the intelligence agencies to Executive.
i wonder what the reaction will be the first time this happens on US soil
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CptBengal 
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
30556 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:07 am to Rickety Cricket)
quote:
just summary execution based on "evidence" that goes straight from the intelligence agencies to Executive.
based on suspicion of evidence. It's criminal.
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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
50418 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:08 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
i wonder what the reaction will be the first time this happens on US soil
Like I said. . .why can't the police operate under the same rule, if it is so benign?
This post was edited on 2/8 at 9:09 am
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Bayou Sam
LSU Fan
Snake and Jake's Christmas Club
Member since Aug 2009
4116 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:09 am to Roaad)
the 5th amendment provides no due process for soldiers in time of war.
The military has its own kind of due process which is not the due process laid out in the 5th amendment.
The administration has its own due process for dealing with a very specific type of enemy outside US court jurisdiction.
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CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
30556 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:10 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
i wonder what the reaction will be the first time this happens on US soil
Since the signing of the NDAA...it will happen eventually.
I doubt there will be an outcry if a dem is president though.
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10511 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:10 am to Jbird)
quote:
So it must be blindly assumed that a political apointee makes a correct application of use of force, you may feel that is acceptable, I for one will never accept this premise.
The political apointee doesn't make the decision to act on anything.
quote:
Nothing in that white paper even hints at any protocol for application of use of force.
That's not the purpose of a white paper. A white paper explains or justifies a policy. It isn't an SOP.
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It doesn't even fricking state who or what agency has the authority to order a fricking hit on an American.
For the type of operation in question, that "agency" would be the National Command Authority--the president (in most cases) or the SECDEF (in some delegated cases). In this case, it's the president. The appointees that you guys are fretting about are advisors who make a judgement and advise. They don't have military command authority (except the SECDEF).
quote:
If you aren't nervous about that then you have way too fricking much faith in a government that yesterday you claimed has abused civil rights more than our European brethren.
I think we're reading the situation differently. I don't think there's anything scary about treating a member of a foreign hostile force as a belligerent. It's not new. As I said, if he were standing across from me aiming his musket, I wouldn't run over and try to arrest him. I'd drop his ass. If he were drawing up plans in the enemy tent, and I had a sniper rifle that could reach him, and there was no way for me to get through the camp's defenses to capture him, I'd drop his ass. Simple.
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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
50418 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:11 am to Bayou Sam)
quote:
the 5th amendment provides no due process for soldiers in time of war.
Because the UCMJ handles that.
quote:
The military has its own kind of due process which is not the due process laid out in the 5th amendment.
It is a trial, with judges, and evidence, and a standard for doing such which is available to the public. And you knowingly agree to be under it when you sign up.
quote:
The administration has its own due process for dealing with a very specific type of enemy outside US court jurisdiction.
They are US Citizens, who are not in the military. . .and therefore covered by the 5th amendment.
This post was edited on 2/8 at 9:13 am
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16738 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:12 am to TigerLicks)
quote:
78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens
Id love to see what the percentage was in 2008. Guessing it was a wee bit lower.
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Bayou Sam
LSU Fan
Snake and Jake's Christmas Club
Member since Aug 2009
4116 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:14 am to Roaad)
Um, no. The 5th amendment was not drafted with USMJ 104 in mind, sorry.
FWIW, I agree, but I think the issue is cloudier than you suggest. My real view is here: LINK
This post was edited on 2/8 at 9:15 am
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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
514 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:14 am to Navytiger74)
quote:
standing across from me aiming his musket
If he were drawing up plans in the enemy tent,
Note that neither is a prerequisite laid out in the DOJ memo.
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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10866 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:17 am to Roaad)
What's disheartening to me is that the Republicans seem to be lockstepping with Obama on this issue.
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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
50418 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:17 am to Bayou Sam)
quote:
The 5th amendment was not drafted with USMJ 104 in mind, sorry
No, because they used the Articles of War when the US Constitution was drafted.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263414 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:17 am to Bayou Sam)
quote:
The administration has its own due process for dealing with a very specific type of enemy outside US court jurisdiction.
but they're still american citizens
and this argument is easy to have in an academic/hypothetical setting online, but we're all assuming guilt
what if the person killed isn't guilty?
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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
50418 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:19 am to trackfan)
quote:
What's disheartening to me is that the Republicans seem to be lockstepping with Obama on this issue.
Because those fricks want the power when they have the White House!
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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
50418 posts
| re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens (Posted on 2/8/13 at 9:20 am to Roaad)
I'm out.
I can't stomach the moral and ethical gymnastics the Dems on here are attempting.
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