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Patrick O Rly 
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
25513 posts
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| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 1:51 pm to Lester Earl)
The cap is going to go up in the next couple of years. I'm not saying he's above criticism, but he hasn't even gotten started this year yet. I think we hit pretty good in last years draft, and I'm hoping to find some more udfa gems this year.
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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
18292 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 1:53 pm to Patrick O Rly)
quote:
I'm hoping to find some more udfa gems this year
ah, hope springs eternal! February: when every team is a move or two away from a Lombardi
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DownHome
New Orleans Saints Fan
Pascagoula,MS
Member since Jan 2012
495 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 1:54 pm to blueslover)
The problem with these sites is that they have no way of knowing how a players contract is worded. Such as guaranteed money, bonuses and what not's. They just look at the overall value of the contracts and say this is what you have.
Hell it was just a few months back we supposedly had around 8 mil. and the thought was using that to extend Jimmy G. Just a few years back we had 27 FA's ready to hit the streets, not to mention last year was pretty tight. In the end it all worked out. IMHO we have the best cap manager in the business and when it is all said and done we are going sit back and wonder how in the frick did he do that.
All hail the Mickster, cause he got this shite.   
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whodatfan
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2008
12443 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:07 pm to 504hornets)
This worries me. It's gonna take cutting/restructuring 10 or more players to get under that number.
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
64691 posts
Online
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:09 pm to whodatfan)
quote:
This worries me. It's gonna take cutting/restructuring 10 or more players to get under that number.
and honestly, we don't even really have a large number of players even under contract really. We have a good bit of uFA's and a good bit of Rfa's.
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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
18292 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:12 pm to Chad504boy)
that has a lot to do why Brees used the term "fresh start" for the 2013 season IMO
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whodatfan
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2008
12443 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:17 pm to blueslover)
Look at the bright side. We won't get penalized for 12 men on the field because we won't have 12 men total on the roster. 
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
64691 posts
Online
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:21 pm to whodatfan)
quote:
Look at the bright side. We won't get penalized for 12 men on the field because we won't have 12 men total on the roster.
We can't start a Cut Devery Thread cause he doesn't even have a contract.
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deuce985 
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2008
11559 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:23 pm to 504hornets)
Oh we fricked. Looks like Loomis was banking on the NFL to raise cap this year and it didn't happen. Better work his cap magic. I can't see us getting any significant FAs. Probably will lose Bushrod, which will hurt. Charles Brown sucks balls and can't even stay healthy to play.
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Lester Earl
New Orleans Saints Fan
Flavortown
Member since Nov 2003
161095 posts
Online
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:29 pm to Chad504boy)
quote:
We've had a successful run with a number of players over the past 6 years or so. That in turn means you have to reward a number of players with rewarding contracts.
It helps when you draft good players (particularly on defense) and they play well, and are on their 1st contract.
BUT.....
since we havent drafted defensive players worth a damn, we are forced to re-sign our mediocre guys to more than they are worth. We are also forced to dip into free agency & spend money on players to help fill other needs.
quote:
You seem to put a lot of the personnel decision making for the bad on Mickey but thinks Payton only has a say on the O. I think that logic is wrong.
Im certainaly not going to put our financial troubles on Payton
This post was edited on 2/7 at 2:31 pm
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
64691 posts
Online
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:35 pm to Lester Earl)
quote:
Im certainaly not going to put our financial troubles on Payton
You think Sean Payton has no input on the resigning of players like marques colston, roman harper, will smith, carl nicks, jonathan goodwin, etc? You think Mickey takes no input from Sean as to where they need to use the team's cap space moving forward?
And we have a large number of contributions from players in their 1st year deal. Problem is they didn't develop nor contribute like they've should and we have a large amount of instability on the defensive side of the ball past couple years.
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deuce985
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2008
11559 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:38 pm to Lester Earl)
I always saw Loomis as purely a cap guy and not much of a talent evaluator. I strongly believe most of those offensive evaluations are contributed largely to Payton. When you look at defense, who do you blame there? Because we know Payton isn't a defensive guy.
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DownHome
New Orleans Saints Fan
Pascagoula,MS
Member since Jan 2012
495 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:39 pm to Lester Earl)
Lester Earl
That post showed the difference between New England and us. The ability to draft wisely with a look toward the future. Before you all slam me on our drafts, just look what NE does. When a players contract is up they are willing to let him go in FA than sign him to a fat contract with the exception of a few key players. They just reload with what they have drafted.
Our problem is that we have given some sizeable contracts to some players that we should have let go and reloaded. It is as simple as that. The question is, have we learned form our mistakes? Time will tell.
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Lester Earl
New Orleans Saints Fan
Flavortown
Member since Nov 2003
161095 posts
Online
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:41 pm to Chad504boy)
quote:
You think Sean Payton has no input on the resigning of players like marques colston, roman harper, will smith, carl nicks, jonathan goodwin, etc? You think Mickey takes no input from Sean as to where they need to use the team's cap space moving forward?
When Loomis' ONE JOB is to manage the money, he better be damn good at it.
Does Payton have a say in who to re-sign, who to let go, etc? Sure he does. He also has a shite ton of other responsibility, like making sure our offense is able to carry the team, like scouting offensive personnel coming out of college, like managing an entire football team.
Why is Loomis here? Doesn't grade talent, that is painfully obvious.
"He's the best goddarn bean counter in da league!! Dats wut he is!!!!"
uhhh yea. Ok.
quote:
And we have a large number of contributions from players in their 1st year deal. Problem is they didn't develop nor contribute like they've should and we have a large amount of instability on the defensive side of the ball past couple years.
Cause someone has to play. Our defensive drafting has been horrible. Of course we have players on their 1st deal, naturally. THey just aren't worth a shite.
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
64691 posts
Online
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:42 pm to deuce985)
quote:
I always saw Loomis as purely a cap guy and not much of a talent evaluator. I strongly believe most of those offensive evaluations are contributed largely to Payton. When you look at defense, who do you blame there? Because we know Payton isn't a defensive guy.
I think the system the saints have in place in drafting prospects is just the trust of a collective staff. To generically say pretty much all offensive drafting success is merely cause of Sean Payton (bc he is an offensive strategist genius) as well as the failures on the defensive end escapes the same system in place for finding the offensive talent and the blame goes straight to mickey is pretty moronic.
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
64691 posts
Online
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:44 pm to Lester Earl)
quote:
When Loomis' ONE JOB is to manage the money,
That's a false statement under your behalf as well as your assumption that he hasn't done a good job at it.
quote:
Does Payton have a say in who to re-sign, who to let go, etc? Sure he does.
Then start putting the blame in part on him for bad decisions on resigning of players.
quote:
Cause someone has to play. Our defensive drafting has been horrible. Of course we have players on their 1st deal, naturally. THey just aren't worth a shite.
Where is your culpability on payton with bad staff hires?
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deuce985
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2008
11559 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 2:58 pm to Chad504boy)
Meh. Can't think of many bad hires from Payton. The NFL keeps plucking guys under him, so apparently he's doing something right. Spags wasn't a bad hire, he just had nothing to work with here.
I think it's safe to say some GMs have certain strengths and weaknesses. Just like coaches. Maybe you'll get a GM who can't balance a checkbook for shite but is an amazing talent evaluator.
This post was edited on 2/7 at 3:00 pm
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rantfan
LSU Fan
new iberia la
Member since Nov 2012
1654 posts
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 3:06 pm to deuce985)
We are screwed!
This post was edited on 2/7 at 3:10 pm
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Lester Earl
New Orleans Saints Fan
Flavortown
Member since Nov 2003
161095 posts
Online
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 3:08 pm to Chad504boy)
quote:
That's a false statement under your behalf as well as your assumption that he hasn't done a good job at it.
how is it false? What else do you think he does?
I never said he was bad at it. My point is, and always has been, if we had any type of GM that could evaluate talent, it would make it a lot easier to manage the cap.
He's been in a bad spot the last 2 years because of the lack of overall talent & player development. ESp on DEF
quote:
Then start putting the blame in part on him for bad decisions on resigning of players.
 you're reaching big time
quote:
Where is your culpability on payton with bad staff hires?
like? Spags?
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Lester Earl
New Orleans Saints Fan
Flavortown
Member since Nov 2003
161095 posts
Online
| re: Saints are 20.6 million over the cap (Posted on 2/7/13 at 3:10 pm to Lester Earl)
Chad, you going out of your way to bash Payton because you love Loomis so much should be embarrassing
Everything i say its "oh well Payton should be blamed too!!!"
frick man, you're joke.
Does Loomis have any weakness in your eyes?
This post was edited on 2/7 at 3:13 pm
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