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pr0jektblack 
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2011
499 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:12 pm to Rex)
quote:
Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school
We could only hope.
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90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
6184 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:17 pm to Rex)
quote:
If House Bill 2467 becomes law, atheists would either not be allowed to graduate from high school, or atheists would need to lie in order to receive a high school diploma
if the bill is as you describe, seems plainly unconstitutional, and hopeless to survive both bill-passage & judicial review
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TheDoc 
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2005
89051 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:22 pm to pr0jektblack)
quote:
We could only hope
In America where there are more believers, chances are the gradation rate is pretty low as opposed to cities where more atheists are have higher ones.
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pr0jektblack
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2011
499 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:25 pm to TheDoc)
Those people waiting in front of wall street to occupy are your typical atheists.
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Tiguar 
South Alabama Fan
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Member since Mar 2012
3066 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:25 pm to Rex)
Rhetoric aside I have to side with the libs on this one (ouch).
I was raised southern baptist and anyone forcing me to say anything about allah, buddah, or whatever else would quickly find themselves on the wrong end of my 2nd amendment stick. Keeping "under God" in the pledge is one thing but forcing folks is something else entirely.
But yeah, this bill is just a talking point and probably won't get close to passing (or being upheld)
This post was edited on 1/28 at 12:27 pm
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GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
9492 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:26 pm to pr0jektblack)
quote:
Those people waiting in front of wall street to occupy are your typical atheists.
You don't know what you're fricking talking about. Stop while you're ahead...the Fantasy Sports Board is that a-way...
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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buddhavista
Member since Jul 2012
3543 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:28 pm to GeauxTigerTM)
quote:
Those people waiting in front of wall street to occupy are your typical atheists.
You don't know what you're fricking talking about. Stop while you're ahead...the Fantasy Sports Board is that a-way...
yeah, I know a bunch of atheists and many were sympathetic towards occupy and the tea party, they have jobs.
Pretty much every statistic I have seen says atheists in the US are smarter and better educated than the religious.
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90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
6184 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:30 pm to pr0jektblack)
quote:
Those people waiting in front of wall street to occupy are your typical atheists.
i had them all pegged as wiccans or something
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GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
9492 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:32 pm to Tiguar)
quote:
Rhetoric aside I have to side with the libs on this one (ouch).
You're not siding with "the libs." The fact that most conservatives make this assumption is part of the problem, and WHY I left the GOP this past fall and voted Libertarian for the first time since 1988.
quote:
Keeping "under God" in the pledge is one thing but forcing folks is something else entirely.
It's just as silly...as it shouldn't be there either. The Pledge on its face is needless, but when you insert Under God in between the lines one nation and indivisible you do exactly that...DIVIDE us. We are NOT one nation under god, but we can certainly be one nation indivisible...unless you make it so that only those who are "under god" can participate.
Both of these things are cut from the same cloth.
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Tiguar
South Alabama Fan
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Member since Mar 2012
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| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:35 pm to GeauxTigerTM)
Its not an assumption. Libs have their pet projects and Conservatives have theirs. I'm not a republican either.
And we will have to agree to disagree. It becomes a problem when you start forcing people to say the pledge. I've seen folks take under God out and its their right to do so. It's also my right to say under God if I want to.
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GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
9492 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:43 pm to Tiguar)
quote:
Its not an assumption. Libs have their pet projects and Conservatives have theirs.
But atheism on its face is not a liberal project. Assuming that you're talking to a liberal when you talk to a hard line atheist IS a problem. And it's certainly a recipe for being called out on this forum where the vast majority of atheists ARE either libertarian in their thinking of straight up conservative.
quote:
It becomes a problem when you start forcing people to say the pledge.
Like in schools? We can argue the semantics if you wish, but if one is EXPECTED to recite a pledge then it's not much different in saying they are required to. All you have to do is witness the uproar any time some kid decides to make a fuss about not wanting to say it and all hell breaks loose.
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I've seen folks take under God out and its their right to do so.
I don't say it, but I resent having to alter it. It should have never been added in the 1950's to begin with.
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It's also my right to say under God if I want to.
You can say that whenever you want...adding it to secular things and then telling others they can simply ignore it if they want is not a solution. this would be clear if instead of God we change the word to Thor or Zeus. Not adding it in the first place and allowing someone to add it and anything else they'd like would be the better solution.
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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Republic of West Florida
Member since Sep 2004
3163 posts
 Online
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:45 pm to ShortyRob)
quote:
There is nothing about being an atheist that requires acceptance of lying.
Oh, I'm very certain that atheists don't accept being lied to.
That said, this legislative proposal is silly. I would say that the whole idea of oaths and swearing is silly. It's like saying, "no seriously, I really mean it this time." That kind of implies you are full of shite the rest of the time.
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Tiguar
South Alabama Fan
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Member since Mar 2012
3066 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:48 pm to GeauxTigerTM)
Gun rights on its face isn't a conservative thing but they've taken up the mantle.
Same with libs and atheism. I don't assume liberal = atheist, I simply meant in the context of this thread that a lot of the people offended by this are resident liberals. Look at the OP.
quote:
I don't say it, but I resent having to alter it.
What if I resented having to alter it after you changed it back?
quote:
It should have never been added in the 1950's to begin with.
Can agree. It honestly seems like a non-issue to me. I don't care if you don't want to say it, and I don't care if someone wants to say Zeus or Thor. 
This post was edited on 1/28 at 12:50 pm
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GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
9492 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:58 pm to Tiguar)
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Same with libs and atheism.
I just think you're wrong here. While I would certainly agree that the majority of atheists ARE liberal, it is not some liberal selling point. After all, there is only ONE confirmed atheist in all of congress, and I'd bet my left nut that open atheists make up less than 1% of all elected officials in the US. If atheism was so connected to liberalism, that would not be the case.
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What if I resented having to alter it after you changed it back?
I'd tell you I was an originalist.
quote:
It honestly seems like a non-issue to me.
I see this all the time, and yet these types of things keep getting needlessly added to secular things. If it's so meaningless, why do these folks keep adding them? The people that added it to this stupid pledge probably thought it was quite important, otherwise they would have left it out.
quote:
I don't care if you don't want to say it, and I don't care if someone wants to say Zeus or Thor.
I think you feel that way if someone wanted to add it on their own. I have a feeling you'd feel differently if the government suddenly replaced God with Zeus in various places. Sure, you could ignore it...but why should you? It shouldn't be there in the first place.
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Tiguar
South Alabama Fan
Mobile
Member since Mar 2012
3066 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:04 pm to GeauxTigerTM)
quote:
and I'd bet my left nut that open atheists make up less than 1% of all elected officials in the US. If atheism was so connected to liberalism, that would not be the case.
A lot of libs own guns and conceal carry. I don't see your point. Again, I'm not saying that libs are atheists and vice versa, just that at this point in time libs seem to be championing certain rights that are beneficial to atheists.
The bottom line is you will never please everybody. I totally get what you are saying, but I would just not say Zeus or Thor. It's easy for me to say on this side of the problem and I can't say for certain how I would react, but that's how I feel right now.
quote:
I see this all the time, and yet these types of things keep getting needlessly added to secular things. If it's so meaningless, why do these folks keep adding them? The people that added it to this stupid pledge probably thought it was quite important, otherwise they would have left it out.
I don't know. You're not arguing with those people, you're arguing with me, and I just don't care.
I think it was added in the 1950s because we were in a coldwar with the godless soviet union heathen pigs.
I have to head to class btw, if you post and I don't respond. I'm not bailing 
This post was edited on 1/28 at 1:06 pm
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kingbob
LSU Fan
St. Amant, LA
Member since Nov 2010
9190 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:10 pm to Rex)
wow, what an overblown piece of bs. Don't you realize that you have to say "so help me God" when being sworn in in court too? What a travesty. 
Also, Rex, were you at the Krewe of Mutts Parade yesterday? It was pretty fun.
Also, I think the law is stupid and unnecessary.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 1:15 pm
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BlackHelicopterPilot
LSU Fan
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
27073 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:13 pm to kingbob)
quote:
wow, what an overblown piece of bs. Don't you realize that you have to say "so help me God" when being sworn in in court too? What a travesty.
1) I kinda agree it was blown out of proportion
2) As an atheist, I don't fear saying "so help me Gawd"...it is as silly as me saying "so help me Thor" or "so help me Underdog" or "so help me Santa Clause". Its goofy. But, not some 'sacred lie'
3) Why the frick are we needing an OATH to graduate HS? frick!!! Set up the curriculum and grade the work. This OATH is ridiculous on its face
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LSUMJ
LSU Fan
BR
Member since Sep 2004
13655 posts
Online
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:49 pm to Rex)
quote:
I'm not willing to lie in court.
Well glad to know you have one place
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PhoenixLSUTiger
LSU Fan
Phoenix, AZ
Member since Dec 2007
666 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:52 pm to Rex)
quote:
If House Bill 2467 becomes law, atheists would either not be allowed to graduate from high school, or atheists would need to lie in order to receive a high school diploma.
But, hey, let's face it... seems like a good way to keep your brightest young people from advancing in society. Wouldn't want to upset the status quo.
We are used to this type of kookery out here in AZ We are alo used to footing the bill for the cost of dragging stupid shite like this through the courts only to see it fail.
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GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
9492 posts
| re: Arizona bill could prevent atheists from graduating high school (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:58 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot)
quote:
2) As an atheist, I don't fear saying "so help me Gawd"...it is as silly as me saying "so help me Thor" or "so help me Underdog" or "so help me Santa Clause". Its goofy. But, not some 'sacred lie'
Of course...but you know Rex. Dude is more dramatic than Susan Lucci. That being said, regardless of whether or not I believe what I'm being asked to say, I resent having to either say it with a smirk on my face knowing I don;t believe it, or having to go through the trouble of purposefully NOT saying it.
I think the biggest problem is that the religious seem to think that NOT including a reference to god in various places is the same thing as championing atheism...like NOT having a Christian prayer over the loud speaker is like agreeing with Richard Dawkins. It isn't. It would simply be not including references to any gods, or there lack thereof. It would be keeping an already non-religious thing non-religious. The flip side of Under God would be something to the effect of "Not Under Any Gods, because we see no evidence for any." It's silly...and NOBODY is suggesting anything of the sort.
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3) Why the frick are we needing an OATH to graduate HS? frick!!! Set up the curriculum and grade the work. This OATH is ridiculous on its face
Well, yeah...plus what's in it has nothing to do with having graduated from fricking high school.
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