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Mung
LSU Fan
El-lick
Member since Aug 2007
4112 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


no shite. if anyone will screw the recreationals in favor of business interests, it's Bobby J.





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Motorboat
LSU Fan
At the camp
Member since Oct 2007
8508 posts
 Online 

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


quote:

if anyone will screw the recreationals in favor of business interests, it's Bobby J.


Are you fricking kidding me? Let me introduce you Dr. Jane Lubchenco:

Dr. Jane Lubchenco has been the under secretary of commerce for oceans and atmosphere and administrator of NOAA since 2009. Nominated by President Obama in December 2008 as part of his “Science Team,” she is a marine ecologist and environmental scientist by training, with expertise in oceans, climate change, and interactions between the environment and human well-being...

Under her leadership, NOAA has focused on restoring fisheries to sustainability and profitability.

If you don't think this lady sets policy at the behest of Obama, you're nuts. see also LINK

and

LINK

good thing she is stepping down, but the next in line will be just as bad.






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MoreOrLes
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2008
16520 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


Good Post

And THAT post Should have an sticky on its own thread


People need education






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JasonL79
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gretna
Member since Jan 2010
3630 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


quote:

This is all done o/b/o commercial fishermen. They get to monopolize snapper fishery, until they frick that up too, like they do every other fishery. Then they'll move on to destroy the next resource.


You really are clueless when it comes to commercial fisherman and their so called monopoly.

And to the other poster that said Commercial fisherman have strong lobbying organizations.

This has everything to do with a bureaucratic
government regulating everything under the sun. Most of these people setting these regulations aren't even in touch with what they are regulating.






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Mung
LSU Fan
El-lick
Member since Aug 2007
4112 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


wow, links from uberRecreational fishing sites, to support your position? shocking. the battle between recreationals and commercials continues. My point was that Obama doesn't give a shite about the battle, or limiting recreational fishing. If he appoints someone who is interested in actual science to support management, what could be wrong with that? Science supports recreational fishing, not commercial, as we already greatly limit ourselves.





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TutHillTiger
LSU Fan
Mississippi Alabama
Member since Sep 2010
7246 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


Dont even get me freaking started but dont just blame this on Obama. It has been screwed up for a decade. It is a complete freaking joke. They have no idea what actual catch is, no idea all done with a few surveys.





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Mung
LSU Fan
El-lick
Member since Aug 2007
4112 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


Right, we should just let the commercials regulate themselves. Get the government out of everything and just let them do what they want. They did such a good job with cod and other groundfish in the NE, redfish during the Prudhomme inspired craze, and a bazillion other fisheries. They have proven time and time again that they will harvest the last of any species to make a buck. So you can bitch about bureaucracy, but the gubmint is the only entity out there with the ability to protect the resource.

They don't need a lobby, just people placed on the right boards to carry water for them.

weren't you the guy shilling for restaurants and commercials a while back?






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JasonL79
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gretna
Member since Jan 2010
3630 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


quote:

Right, we should just let the commercials regulate themselves. Get the government out of everything and just let them do what they want.


I never said that. Putting words into my mouth I see.

I think it should be regulated to keep the fishery sustainable but not with all these BS models they come up with.

quote:

They don't need a lobby, just people placed on the right boards to carry water for them.


They don't have any powerful lobbying groups like you think. Their supposed powerful lobbying group is non-existent.

You said it's all about recreationals vs. commercials still. News flash for you- the recreationals won out 15-20 years ago. Commercials can hardly fish anything now. They took away redfish and speckle trout. Two of the most abundant fish in Louisiana and even in the country. Commercials have so many laws now today that they can barely fish anything and the fisherman left are dying out. They attacked the tuna industry years ago and took away live bait and regulated other things. The tuna longline fleet is down from about 250 boats in the early 90's to about 25 today. The commercial industry has been in shambles for 10+ years. Instead of complaining about the commercials for no fish maybe you should learn to fish better.

There are tons of red snapper out there off of Louisiana's shores but the FEDS are using some BS model to set limits.

quote:

weren't you the guy shilling for restaurants and commercials a while back?


Not sure what you are talking about but I grew up in the commercial industry and saw what happened first hand. The reason the commercials got beat was they couldn't organize or agree on anything amongst each other and they faced a huge recreational lobbying group that had more political power than them in this corrupt state. My parents spent over $150,000 fighting some of these laws 20 years ago and had some of the state's top biologists on the commercial's side also. Biologists who thought tighter regulations should be considered instead of outright bans.

By the way, I am now only recreational fisherman (inshore saltwater and offshore saltwater) and have always been one actually. I am able to see both sides and not just one side.



This post was edited on 1/11 at 8:31 am


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TreeDawg
LSU Fan
Central, La.
Member since Jan 2005
26284 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


quote:

the original red snapper restrictions went into place in 2008 under a guy named GW Bush.




and ironically, Texas does not adhere to those rules...........






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Mung
LSU Fan
El-lick
Member since Aug 2007
4112 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


yeah, I thought we had this argument before, and your commercial fishing roots were outed.

My initial response was to someone blaming Obama. You responded blaming bureaucracy and the desire of the current administration to regulate everything. I think there are much bigger fish to fry, and there is no secret agenda to stop fishing.

I totally agree with you that the current situation is completely SNAFU, and not based on what we see here in LA. However, to the extent that it is based on actual science, hopefully it will produce dividends in the future. So we suck up a few years of lower creel limits, and when they come back in all age classes we enjoy the benefits.

If commercial fishermen had a history of sustainable management of the resources so that everyone could enjoy it, i might side with them. But they never have. They have caused the shortage in virtually every species, that recreationals have to take lower limits for. Plus, in La they get most of the snapper, and can catch pretty much everything but redfish, they are only limited by method. They can even catch and sell trout, just not in a gill net.






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JasonL79
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gretna
Member since Jan 2010
3630 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


quote:

and your commercial fishing roots were outed.


Doesn't bother me. There is nothing wrong with commercial fisherman.

quote:

If commercial fishermen had a history of sustainable management of the resources so that everyone could enjoy it, i might side with them. But they never have. They have caused the shortage in virtually every species


It's not the fact that they are commercial fisherman but the fact that they are human. It's human nature to try to make more money. It's not like they are evil people just trying to deplete all the resources. That is why the government has to regulate the industry along with the recreational industry. Fishing shouldn't just be for recreationals or just for commercials. It should be for both. And people that don't fish should be able to buy fish and eat them in restaurants also.

There are commercials that are for conservation believe it or not. Then there are some that don't care. But there are recreationals that violate too and don't care about resources either.

Back during gill net bans, we pushed for heavier regulations but it was all or nothing and they just did away with gill nets and made redfish a game fish. To this day, there is no reason why redfish shouldn't be able to be caught by commercials with at least a rodnreel. Redfish stocks are very healthy and have been for a long time.

quote:

Plus, in La they get most of the snapper


It is not as big of a gap as you are making it out to be. It's 51% vs 49%.

quote:

pretty much everything but redfish, they are only limited by method. They can even catch and sell trout, just not in a gill net.


Try to go out and get some of these commercial licenses to fish some of these species and then come back and let me know how it goes. You cannot just go out and start fishing red snapper commercially. All the red snapper licenses are grandfathered in and they are not allowing any new licenses. Some people are selling their rights to red snapper licenses for tens of thousands of dollars because that's it.

You can keep thinking that the commercials are destroying the resources or are hurting you from catching more fish but it's not true in the US anymore. The number of commercial fisherman in Louisiana is probably down 60-75% compared to the 80's. It's not that big of an industry anymore outside of shrimp (which has tons of issues with competing with imports) and oysters. I would be willing to bet that recreationals(including fishing guides) catch more fish now than commercials with most species. Especially with speckle trout and redfish.






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Mung
LSU Fan
El-lick
Member since Aug 2007
4112 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


i think you are correct, but do not think that is a bad thing. I would wager the recs have a greater economic impact when you look at what they spend vs. the impact the commercials had with the same resource.





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Icansee4miles
LSU Fan
Trolling the Tickfaw
Member since Jan 2007
14551 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


It won't be long before our population is more like Florida's, at the pace Obama's campaign supporters are being paid to knock down and haul off all our rigs. But he's an environmentalist president.





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Icansee4miles
LSU Fan
Trolling the Tickfaw
Member since Jan 2007
14551 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


Jason, I usually respect your opinion on most things, but when you suggest that the commercial fishing lobby doesn't outspend and outmaneuver the recreational lobbyists on the regular, you're pulling someone's leg.

There are also well documented, public statements made by commercial fishermen in New England stating that they would pull their trawls until the very last ground fish was removed from their fishing areas, sustainability be damned. And it pretty much worked that way. And pretty much got there with swordfish, and with bluefin tuna.






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JasonL79
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gretna
Member since Jan 2010
3630 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


quote:

Jason, I usually respect your opinion on most things, but when you suggest that the commercial fishing lobby doesn't outspend and outmaneuver the recreational lobbyists on the regular, you're pulling someone's leg.


When it comes to the south it's true. I really can't comment on the northeast as I don't know much about that area's commercial industry. Maybe they are more organized, but the commercial lobbying groups are almost a joke in the south. I know because my brother and dad were president (different orginazations) on some of the boards at one time. The fisherman used to argue with each other and nobody wanted to put up money to fight.

Gulf fish lobbying groups are pretty much non-existent. Shrimp lobbying groups have a little more power with oysters probably being the strongest in the seafood industy I would guess.



This post was edited on 1/11 at 5:06 pm


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JasonL79
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gretna
Member since Jan 2010
3630 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


quote:

would wager the recs have a greater economic impact when you look at what they spend vs. the impact the commercials had with the same resource.


Oh I can agree with that. There is more money in the recreational industry no doubt. But there still should be some balance between the two. Like I said, people who don't fish should still be able to buy fish and eat it at restaurants.






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Mung
LSU Fan
El-lick
Member since Aug 2007
4112 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


well, i think they can. I can buy trout, snapper, Texas redfish, yellowfin tuna, ling and grouper at restaurants around New Orleans. It may cost a little more, but it's available.

CCA has defintiely dominated La lobbying, but it's different elsewhere.






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JasonL79
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gretna
Member since Jan 2010
3630 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


quote:

I can buy trout, snapper, Texas redfish, yellowfin tuna, ling and grouper at restaurants around New Orleans


Yep you can buy mexican trout, carribean snapper, texas "farm" raised redfish, yellowfin tuna from south america and vietnam, ling/cobia from the carribean, and grouper from Mexico and south america.

Only thing local you can get is black drum and sheephead regularly. Anything else local is a big hit and miss. About 10-20% of the fish you eat in these restuarants are local and 80-90% is imported.






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Motorboat
LSU Fan
At the camp
Member since Oct 2007
8508 posts
 Online 

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


The Gulf Council is holding a public meeting tonight in BR for comments on regional management of Red Snapper and other species. It will be at the Doubletree hotel on Constitution Avenue at 6:00 p.m. The public is invited to attend and comment.





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BourgsTheWord
Member since Apr 2008
22133 posts

re: The administration's plan on Red Snapper


Interesting





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