Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
15621 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

I asked you how much costs would've gone up without ACA.


At best, that question is intellectually dishonest, at worst it's just moronic. It's pretty much impossible to guage what would have happened if something didn't happen, especially when it comes to something so large and you know it. This is the same intellectually dishonest clap-trap the Left spewed about Unemployment following the stimulus. "It would have been much worse".

The thing you seem to be dodging in all your hyperbole though is that with the ACA's passage we were promised that rates would not go up at all but rather that premiums would be reduced.

From Youtube

That was when he said he would cut the deficit by half by the end of his first term and we all know how that has worked out, don't we?

Yet another instance of him promising something he ended up doing the exact opposite of.



This post was edited on 1/7 at 2:48 pm


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Tigah in the ATL
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2005
23743 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

my 2011 premiums were $82.76

my 2012 premiums were $108.35

my 2013 premiums are around $120
pretty much the way everyone forever can expect their rates to go unless it starts being paid for via your taxes






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

At best, that question is intellectually dishonest, at worst it's just moronic. It's pretty much impossible to guage what would have happened if something didn't happen, especially when it comes to something so large and you know it. This is the same intellectually dishonest clap-trap the Left spewed about Unemployment following the stimulus. "It would have been much worse".

Jesus fricking christ, just say, "I don't know" next time, will ya?
quote:

The thing you seem to be dodging in all your hyperbole though is that with the ACA's passage

I'm not dodging shit, I asked a simple question, and YOU dodged it - accusing me of intellectual dishonesty.

Ironic.


quote:

we were promised that rates would not go up at all but rather that premiums would be reduced.

That's not what I recall, I recall being told that while rates may go up, they wouldn't go up as fast.

Hence my question, how much would they have gone up without ACA - are there no projections from before? Weren't businesses busy trying to figure out how they were going to pay for all these increases in health care benefits? After all, my rates doubled just prior to ACA, so businesses should have been vigilant to more increases in the future. Or do they only look at benefit increases when advanced by a democrat and otherwise it's business as usual as benefit costs increase ever upward.

I'm thinking NONE of you are old enough to remember the debate in the early 90s between Hillary and the health insurance/big pharma companies and Republicans.

Hell, most of you are probably too young to remember the graphs Jindal was using to show how medicare/aid was going to be 100% of the State budget by ca. 2020 - while running in 2007!

Our health care delivery system was in trouble LONG before Obamacare came to pass.






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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
15621 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

That's not what I recall, I recall being told that while rates may go up, they wouldn't go up as fast.


Which is why I provided a link.

quote:

I'm not dodging shit, I asked a simple question, and YOU dodged it - accusing me of intellectual dishonesty.

Ironic.


I answered. That you didn't like my answer is not my dodging it.

quote:

Our health care delivery system was in trouble LONG before Obamacare came to pass.


And how does adding a massive government bureaucracy make it cheaper and more efficient?



This post was edited on 1/7 at 4:18 pm


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polizei11
LSU Fan
Lafayette
Member since May 2009
923 posts
 Online 

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits




Trendline that graph and you will see premiums would be growing in the 2-3% range from 2010-2012. Article was from 2011.

quote:

Our health care delivery system was in trouble LONG before Obamacare came to pass.


So requiring all Americans to have healthcare or pay a penalty was the correct solution... Hilary wanted the mandatory health insurance provision in 1993. Of course, Republicans fought it like they did with ACA.

quote:

Hell, most of you are probably too young to remember the graphs Jindal was using to show how medicare/aid was going to be 100% of the State budget by ca. 2020 - while running in 2007!


So entitlements = health care premiums? Come on now...






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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
15621 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:




So according to the chart the rate of increases was actually decreasing until 2009-2010?

I wonder what could have happened around that time to cause them to spike so dramatically?






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

I answered. That you didn't like my answer is not my dodging it.

You basically said it was unknowable, and then accused me of being intellectually dishonest for asking. Yeah, I didn't like your answer.
quote:

And how does adding a massive government bureaucracy make it cheaper and more efficient?

Link?






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


That graph doesn't represent anything that I or the people I know, experienced during that time frame. It says my insurance should've only gone up @ 40% during a time it nearly doubled.
quote:

So requiring all Americans to have healthcare or pay a penalty was the correct solution

I don't like the solution, but then again, when the car is out of control, I don't like the idea of crashing it into the rail over going off the cliff.
quote:

So entitlements = health care premiums? Come on now...

Forgive me, but I thought the intention of the ACA was to try to reduce the increasing costs of medicare/aid.

But again, I am not arguing FOR the ACA, I want to know why everyone is so up in arms NOW instead of when they could've done something useful.

This seems to happen over and over again, shit's looking bad and no one seems to notice, then when it hits the fan everyone freaks the frick out. We've been seeing this coming for over 20 years, and both parties have had a shot at doing something. The Republicans passed the Old People On Drugs Act - which is an absolute joke, why didn't they get something done after defeating Hillary's proposal? Did they really think the Democrats would NEVER be in power again and be able to force some crap through?

Just like the damn Patriot [sic] Act, they passed that shite like a democrat would never see the inside of the White House again - and NOW they're pissing and moaning about it.

Here's a clue, when your party's in office - GET SOME BENEFICIAL shite DONE.






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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
14854 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

So when the Republicans held the House, the Senate AND the Executive from 2000-2006, why didn't they fix the health care system?

First, the Republicans did not control the Senate from 2000-2002. The Senate was evenly divided, and Republicans followed Senate rules with respect to filibusters. As to why the Republicans did not "fix" healthcare, how about because people were satisfied with the system we had, and the Republicans knew they could not change market forces simply because they wanted to. Why would Obama promise people they could keep the doctors and insurance they had if they were satsfied with them unless he knew most people were satisfied? The dissatisfaction with Obamacare is largely due to this promise being broken.






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BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
18019 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

I asked you how much costs would've gone up without ACA.


Instead of refuting anyone here, and defending your master's lies about Obamacare, you start reaching for "what if" scenario's. "Sure insurance rates are rising, but what if we didn't have obamacare?" That's such a chicken shite retort. It doesn't address the issue, and deflects to a fantasy land scenario of "what ifs" and "shouldas" and "could have's" where facts are obsolete, and speculation and fairy tales reign supreme. You are admitting you have no argument, and that you prefer to avoid the subject, and talk about fairy tales.






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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
15621 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

quote:

And how does adding a massive government bureaucracy make it cheaper and more efficient?


Link?


Let me get this straight... A bill that was so many pages that no one had read it before it passed. A bill so large that it was pushed by then-Speaker Pelosi as "we have to pass it in order to find out what's in it". A bill that covers our entire healthcare system... but you need a link to see if it creates a massive bureaucracy?



But okay...

LINK

quote:

Don’t bother trying to count up the number of agencies, boards and commissions created under the new health care law. Estimating the number is “impossible,” a recent Congressional Research Service report says, and a true count “unknowable.”

The reasons for the uncertainty are many, according to CRS’s Curtis W. Copeland, the author of the report “New Entities Created Pursuant to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.”

The provisions of the law that create the new entities vary dramatically in specificity.


The Act was so insanely big that even months after it passed the CRS had no idea how many new agencies would be created.

But wait... it's been almost 3 years since it passed, surely SOMEONE has some idea... right?

Here's a pic of the new Healthcare system as dictated by PPACA in case pictures are more instructive to you than words:



Here's the full-sized version.

Good luck finding your El Dorado of efficiency and cost-savings in that insanity, Sir Walter Raleigh.



This post was edited on 1/7 at 6:18 pm


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Oizers
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
892 posts
 Online 

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


Did Obama make Obamacare so bloated to prevent it from ever being eliminated after he's gone?





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polizei11
LSU Fan
Lafayette
Member since May 2009
923 posts
 Online 

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

That graph doesn't represent anything that I or the people I know, experienced during that time frame. It says my insurance should've only gone up @ 40% during a time it nearly doubled.


The graph represents ON AVERAGE. You know for the entire United States... You honestly can't say that your small sample size of the people you know equates to all households in the United States with health insurance.

The graph represents exactly what the people I know and my own premiums experienced during that time frame. My insurance only went up in the 3-5% range.

See I can do it too. My premiums went up 10% this year. I work for a company of 62,000 employee of which half reside in the United States. I guess my sample size is too small.






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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
40486 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


IMHO, we will not know the true impact (one way or the other) on insurance premiums and costs of services for at least a couple of years.





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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1238 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

How much would our rates be going up without Obamacare? That's the issue that no one seems to be addressing.


Something like:
"Yes, we threw a couple of trillion down the rabbit hole and the recovery is still non-existent but think how bad it WOULD have been!!!!"

It certainly makes it easier to never be wrong.






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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
15621 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

"Yes, we threw a couple of trillion down the rabbit hole and the recovery is still non-existent but think how bad it WOULD have been!!!!"


Which is the same argument the President and his folks used to justify the stimulus.






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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
15621 posts

re: Health Insurers Raise Some Rates by Double Digits


quote:

Did Obama make Obamacare so bloated to prevent it from ever being eliminated after he's gone?


I think it was that there were so many hands in that pie that no 5 or even 10 people knew everything that was in it when it was passed. This was literally blind legislation.






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