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Started By
Message
The Man Does Not Make The Program. The Program Makes The Man; Let's Rewind:
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:29 pm
For the sake of the rant, let's close our eyes and take ourselves back in time. Let's go to a place and time where the world of the Tiger Rant was perfect. That time? The year 2004....
On January 4th, LSU was supposedly on top of the CFB world. The Lord and Savior of college coaching, Nick Saban, hoisted his first crystal football in New Orleans after LSU eeked out a close win in a game they dominated over a team that was, just months prior, dubbed "The Greatest Team In College Football History". (Remember, this was 2003, not 2005...stay with me).
However, everything was not right. Fans, players, and other members of the athletic department were distraught (believe me, I was there). LSU, after winning this historic game, was informed before, during and after the game that, no matter how well they performed, they were going to be forced to "split" their National Title with a Brand Program on the west coast. Fans wondered, "how could this be? This team on the west coast wasn't even good enough to play in the title game? How can they get credit for winning a game they didn't play in?". Mass confusion and chaos ensued. After all, LSU had just run through quite a gauntlent of a schedule, although they did not go through it unscathed. That point alone (losing to UF at home) was justification enough to put LSU and the other team in the record books together, according to the national media.
Things would only get worse as 2004 played along. LSU, despite having God at the healm, would lose a close game to AU (thanks SEC Refs!) and then get blown out at UGA while the team struggled with a two QB system all year. The year ended with a MAJOR choke in a bowl game a few days after God announced his departure for greener pastures.
What is the point of this rambling, EZE, you ask? Well, it is simple:
If Saban is God, why wasn't he treated as such when he was at LSU? What is it about Bama that makes him so special?
People bitch here about Miles' LSU teams being penalized out the arse (and much of this is valid) while Saban's Bama teams aren't.
Funny, when Saban was at LSU, his teams were penalized just as much, if not more. What's the difference? The program makes the man....
People bitch all the time about Miles' LSU teams not being able to go unbeaten or win titles without two loses.
Funny, when Saban was at LSU, he was force to "split" his only title with a cheater on the West coast because he lost to a Freshman QB with a subpar, soon-to-be-fired coach from UF.
Saban never had a season better than one loss at LSU. He has had only one unbeaten season at Bama. No one brings this up for Saban regarding 2011 and 2012? Why? The program makes the man...
I could go on and on all day with this with many other examples of situations I saw directly, but I won't. You get the gist of what I'm saying.
Don't take this as me stating that Saban isn't a good coach, because he is. I admit he is one of the best ever, but he isn't God. He has been beaten often by lesser teams and will be beaten again in the future.
I just want to make it clear to everyone here that we aren't as bad off as you think. We have a great Program, but because we aren't a Brand Program, you are hearing about these other factors.
You think if Saban was at LSU he would get a mulligan on losing his biggest game in 2011? No. The program makes the man.
You think if Saban was still at LSU he would be able to avoid the scheduling debacle put in place by Bama alums? No. The program makes the man.
I've already addressed the officiating: Again, the program helps make the man.
Enjoy what we have folks and quit loving your neighbor's wife. Yeah, our wife isn't perfect, but damn her road to hoe in life is much more difficult simply due to the fact that she married someone with a lesser brand name. Despite all this, she still goes out and kicks arse. Her resume may not be as pretty, but her job is a lot harder. (This was my attempt at making an analogy in the same manner Miles would).
On January 4th, LSU was supposedly on top of the CFB world. The Lord and Savior of college coaching, Nick Saban, hoisted his first crystal football in New Orleans after LSU eeked out a close win in a game they dominated over a team that was, just months prior, dubbed "The Greatest Team In College Football History". (Remember, this was 2003, not 2005...stay with me).
However, everything was not right. Fans, players, and other members of the athletic department were distraught (believe me, I was there). LSU, after winning this historic game, was informed before, during and after the game that, no matter how well they performed, they were going to be forced to "split" their National Title with a Brand Program on the west coast. Fans wondered, "how could this be? This team on the west coast wasn't even good enough to play in the title game? How can they get credit for winning a game they didn't play in?". Mass confusion and chaos ensued. After all, LSU had just run through quite a gauntlent of a schedule, although they did not go through it unscathed. That point alone (losing to UF at home) was justification enough to put LSU and the other team in the record books together, according to the national media.
Things would only get worse as 2004 played along. LSU, despite having God at the healm, would lose a close game to AU (thanks SEC Refs!) and then get blown out at UGA while the team struggled with a two QB system all year. The year ended with a MAJOR choke in a bowl game a few days after God announced his departure for greener pastures.
What is the point of this rambling, EZE, you ask? Well, it is simple:
If Saban is God, why wasn't he treated as such when he was at LSU? What is it about Bama that makes him so special?
People bitch here about Miles' LSU teams being penalized out the arse (and much of this is valid) while Saban's Bama teams aren't.
Funny, when Saban was at LSU, his teams were penalized just as much, if not more. What's the difference? The program makes the man....
People bitch all the time about Miles' LSU teams not being able to go unbeaten or win titles without two loses.
Funny, when Saban was at LSU, he was force to "split" his only title with a cheater on the West coast because he lost to a Freshman QB with a subpar, soon-to-be-fired coach from UF.
Saban never had a season better than one loss at LSU. He has had only one unbeaten season at Bama. No one brings this up for Saban regarding 2011 and 2012? Why? The program makes the man...
I could go on and on all day with this with many other examples of situations I saw directly, but I won't. You get the gist of what I'm saying.
Don't take this as me stating that Saban isn't a good coach, because he is. I admit he is one of the best ever, but he isn't God. He has been beaten often by lesser teams and will be beaten again in the future.
I just want to make it clear to everyone here that we aren't as bad off as you think. We have a great Program, but because we aren't a Brand Program, you are hearing about these other factors.
You think if Saban was at LSU he would get a mulligan on losing his biggest game in 2011? No. The program makes the man.
You think if Saban was still at LSU he would be able to avoid the scheduling debacle put in place by Bama alums? No. The program makes the man.
I've already addressed the officiating: Again, the program helps make the man.
Enjoy what we have folks and quit loving your neighbor's wife. Yeah, our wife isn't perfect, but damn her road to hoe in life is much more difficult simply due to the fact that she married someone with a lesser brand name. Despite all this, she still goes out and kicks arse. Her resume may not be as pretty, but her job is a lot harder. (This was my attempt at making an analogy in the same manner Miles would).
11
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:33 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
Facts, knowledge, information, and perspective not wanted here. GTFO
Signed,
The Rant
For the rest of us....
Signed,
The Rant
For the rest of us....
This post was edited on 1/6/13 at 2:34 pm
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:36 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
If Saban is God, why wasn't he treated as such when he was at LSU?
It was once asked if Saban was the right guy for the job after the UAB game. Seriously.
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:37 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
2002 Arkansas game. No business losing that game. Lsu was up and Saban decided to not put the game away. He went conservative and Arkansas marched the the field for the miracle on Markham. By rantards standards he should have been fired after that season.
That offense was the worst offense lsu has had under saban or miles.
That offense was the worst offense lsu has had under saban or miles.
This post was edited on 1/6/13 at 2:38 pm
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:37 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
For the rest of us....
Thank you! I expect the worse, but frick it, I'm bored, my kids are asleep, and the weather sucks.
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:44 pm to c on z
quote:
It was once asked if Saban was the right guy for the job after the UAB game. Seriously.
I remember this as well...
My point goes beyond LSU fans, though. Saban was NOT that respected by those who truly run college football now: The national media.
I remember the Saban bashing before the NCG in 2003 by John "USC" Saunders and big shitty Shelly Smith. It was laughable. Now these same people can't get enough of him at Bama. Why?
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:46 pm to dgnx6
quote:
2002 Arkansas game. No business losing that game. Lsu was up and Saban decided to not put the game away. He went conservative and Arkansas marched the the field for the miracle on Markham. By rantards standards he should have been fired after that season. That offense was the worst offense lsu has had under saban or miles.
Or how about not taking Mauk out of a blowout at UF, a decision which ultimately cost us a great 2002 season as well...
Or not being able to beat VaTech in 2002 after they decided to rearrange our opening day agreement? That type of thing with the scheduling would never happen to Saban at Bama. Ever.
Saban also has similar losses at Bama: 2010 AU, 2011 LSU and 2012 aTm...
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:49 pm to c on z
quote:
It was once asked if Saban was the right guy for the job after the UAB game. Seriously.
He's the best in the business right now. No one will question that.
I wouldn't want him back however. I just want Les to challenge him and beef up the offense.
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:50 pm to dgnx6
quote:that was the worst offense saban had here. but miles also had an 86th ranked offense twice like saban had in 02. but miles set the record with a whopping 112 ranked offense in 09. miles never had better than 55th since 08, while saban improved in the 30's in 03 & 04. so your post is wrong
That offense was the worst offense lsu has had under saban or miles.
Posted on 1/6/13 at 2:54 pm to c on z
How about Ole Miss 2001.
After a last second TD needed to beat Kentucky, a complete DEFENSIVE collapse led to us falling to 4-3, three games out in the West with THREE teams ahead of us.
Saban was 12-7 at that point and BOOED OFF THE FIELD.
Then, he gets lucky again and Auburn, Ole Miss, and Arkansas lose out. Saban FINALLY lets Ro and Reed cut loose, and we get the breaks to get to ATL and Mauck saves the day when Ro goes down.
02 was a damn shite show, BLASTED by Auburn and Bama (shutout), Miracle needed to beat Kentucky, collapse against Arkansas cost us ATL (lucky for Saban as UGA would have buttfricked us even worse than they did in 04), and then embarrassed by Rant whipping boy Mack Brown in the Cotton for our 5th loss.
03, my favorite season ever, Saban's best team ever LAYS A frickING EGG against Zook's 5 loss Gator team. O doesn't score a point, and that costs us a split title.
All that said, I LOVED the Saban years and supported him and the team through every second.
Why people haven't done the same through MUCH more successful years with Miles is just absolutely mindblowing to me.
After a last second TD needed to beat Kentucky, a complete DEFENSIVE collapse led to us falling to 4-3, three games out in the West with THREE teams ahead of us.
Saban was 12-7 at that point and BOOED OFF THE FIELD.
Then, he gets lucky again and Auburn, Ole Miss, and Arkansas lose out. Saban FINALLY lets Ro and Reed cut loose, and we get the breaks to get to ATL and Mauck saves the day when Ro goes down.
02 was a damn shite show, BLASTED by Auburn and Bama (shutout), Miracle needed to beat Kentucky, collapse against Arkansas cost us ATL (lucky for Saban as UGA would have buttfricked us even worse than they did in 04), and then embarrassed by Rant whipping boy Mack Brown in the Cotton for our 5th loss.
03, my favorite season ever, Saban's best team ever LAYS A frickING EGG against Zook's 5 loss Gator team. O doesn't score a point, and that costs us a split title.
All that said, I LOVED the Saban years and supported him and the team through every second.
Why people haven't done the same through MUCH more successful years with Miles is just absolutely mindblowing to me.
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:00 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
So why didn't the program make Shula, Dubose, or Curry then?? And why are we paying Miles 4.25 mill a year and having to pay him 20 mill if we let him go then if the program makes the man?? It takes two to tango Sir.
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:07 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
This post was edited on 1/6/13 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:14 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
Whole lot of pissing and moaning about Saban in this thread.
Funny you say the man does not make the program, the program makes the man.
I think Les Miles is a mediocre coach at best. That of course is my personal opinion. While spending the entire thread pointing out bad aspects about Saban, let's look at a few things.
He walked into a situation that just fired its coach, and hadn't consistently won in a long time. We had horse shite facilities, and were happy to sniff a bowl game. Saban comes in and changes the entire philosophy of the LSU football program. Recruiting, facilities, you name it. In 4 years he had LSU playing for a National Championship, and was by this time bringing in top notch recruiting classes.
Why bash the guy? He, along with Emmert are responsible for the success we had, and are still set up for in the years to come. Did Nick Saban make LSU? Of course not, but he deserves a lot of praise in getting us to an elite level. All the while LSU helped Saban become the coach he is today too.
Now we look at Les. He comes in as LSU football is at an all time high. Stocked with talent, facilities, you name it. The exact opposite set of circumstances that Saban walks into. In 8 years, we have 1 national title to show for it back in his 3rd year. But Les does have that great record and giant salary to show for it. In this case, I most certainly agree that the program made the man.
Is it as bad as it could be? Of course not. Could it have been better? I seem to think absolutely.
Ask yourself.......if Les Miles walks into LSU at the end of 1999 to take over for Gerry Dinardo, where are we today?
Funny you say the man does not make the program, the program makes the man.
I think Les Miles is a mediocre coach at best. That of course is my personal opinion. While spending the entire thread pointing out bad aspects about Saban, let's look at a few things.
He walked into a situation that just fired its coach, and hadn't consistently won in a long time. We had horse shite facilities, and were happy to sniff a bowl game. Saban comes in and changes the entire philosophy of the LSU football program. Recruiting, facilities, you name it. In 4 years he had LSU playing for a National Championship, and was by this time bringing in top notch recruiting classes.
Why bash the guy? He, along with Emmert are responsible for the success we had, and are still set up for in the years to come. Did Nick Saban make LSU? Of course not, but he deserves a lot of praise in getting us to an elite level. All the while LSU helped Saban become the coach he is today too.
Now we look at Les. He comes in as LSU football is at an all time high. Stocked with talent, facilities, you name it. The exact opposite set of circumstances that Saban walks into. In 8 years, we have 1 national title to show for it back in his 3rd year. But Les does have that great record and giant salary to show for it. In this case, I most certainly agree that the program made the man.
Is it as bad as it could be? Of course not. Could it have been better? I seem to think absolutely.
Ask yourself.......if Les Miles walks into LSU at the end of 1999 to take over for Gerry Dinardo, where are we today?
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:15 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
Great post!!
:startsslowclap:
:startsslowclap:
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:16 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
All that said, I LOVED the Saban years and supported him and the team through every second.
Same here. As a fan of CFB, I still like him now. I'm just not blind to the fact that he's better off with with a bigger brand team to lead.
quote:
Why people haven't done the same through MUCH more successful years with Miles is just absolutely mindblowing to me.
Because they believe, for some reason, Saban would do better here. He wouldn't.
Let's take 2011 and 2012 regular season Bama vs LSU as a great example:
In 2011, Saban lost to LSU AT HOME, in a similar fashion as Miles lost to Saban at home in 2012:
Tried too much cute shite (Reid Int on a TE reverse pass), settled for too many FGs (missed FIVE LONG ones) and didn't put the game away at the end (LSU was pinned deep twice, JJ and Wing got us out of it). Similar losses in similar fashions.
The difference?
Saban gets a redo that Miles, and over 100 other FBS college coaches could only dream of. Saban makes good on the Mulligan. Dozens of other CFB coaches could as well, IF given the chance they would never get (Miles included). Why does Saban get a Mulligan? Again, the program helps make the man.
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:17 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
You think if Saban was at LSU he would get a mulligan on losing his biggest game in 2011? No. The program makes the man.
Has the Alabama conspiracy talk really gotten this out of hand? Do people forget what it took for LSU to reach the national championship game in 2007?
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:23 pm to Open Your Eyes
Not nearly the same in 2007. Apples to oranges
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:25 pm to Open Your Eyes
quote:
Do people forget what it took for LSU to reach the national championship game in 2007
Pitt beating West Virginia. THAT'S IT. Big upset for sure, but once White got hurt that game was a toss-up.
It was no bigger than Iowa State beating Oklahoma State last year for Saban to get his rematch.
OU had already beaten Missou and was FAVORED to do it again. No upset there.
The other 3 teams we jumped DIDN'T play, and LSU was always going to jump them with an SECCG win (without our starting QB btw).
Kansas was never going to finish above us.
Georgia wasn't going to either as they didn't win their division and lost by THREE TOUCHDOWNS to Tennessee, who we beat in ATL with our backup QB.
Oh and #3 V Tech, if I really think about it, I'm sure I can find a reason why we jumped them.
This post was edited on 1/6/13 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:27 pm to Open Your Eyes
quote:
Do people forget what it took for LSU to reach the national championship game in 2007?
You mean like winning the SEC west, winning the SEC, and beating FIVE teams in the top 15? That kind of stuff?
As opposed to: not winning the SEC west, not winning the SEC, and only beating three teams with a winning record (notice that isn't ranked teams, just teams above .500).
I don't know about you, but there isn't much of a difference there...
Posted on 1/6/13 at 3:28 pm to PortCityTiger82
quote:Apparently you don't realize that Saban has become a much better coach.
EZE
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