According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because... - Page 5 - TigerDroppings.com

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rsande2
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Member since Jan 2006
3423 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

Bottom line is that our tax payer funded government cannot endorse a specific religion over another one.


Sorry sir but you are a fool. The whole point of the 1st amendment was to distance ourselves (13 colonies) from the church of england and establish our country as a christian nation with no established church of the state.

So again I ask you what your idea of endorsing a religion really is? I'll hang up and listen.






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WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
13850 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

1st amendment is freedom to practice a religion, not freedom FROM religion



"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."






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rsande2
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2006
3423 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

I see you are purposefully ignoring separation of church and state


Which isn't actually even in the constitution. Yes I know the passage that ppl like to interpret but it literally is not in the constitution.






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TheDoc
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Member since Dec 2005
99296 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


Sigh







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TheDoc
LSU Fan
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99296 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

establish our country as a christian nation


False






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TheDoc
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doc is no more
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re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

Some of the first European settlers came here to practice their interpretations of the Christian religion, and most of the early colonies had official state religions. That practice was not adopted at the Constitutional Convention, however, and every attempt to include official recognition of Christianity in the United States Constitution was defeated.

The secular character of the new nation was quickly affirmed in the Treaty of Tripoli (1797). This document, negotiated under George Washington and signed under John Adams, flatly states that "The Government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."






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TheDoc
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doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
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re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


Are you in favor of persons of all faiths and no faith – Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, pagans, wiccans, atheists, etc. – equally being allowed to pray (or offer faith-based or non-faith based spiritual or similar thoughts) in government-funded settings and venues like public schools, town council meetings, state legislators, Congress, etc.?

Or do you think that such public religious roles, in government-sponsored settings, should be reserved for Christians only?






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catholictigerfan
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Member since Oct 2009
34637 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

Pagans had the tree first


and they called it the holiday tree?






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rsande2
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2006
3423 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

establish our country as a christian nation


quote:

False


In 1892 the U.S. Supreme Court declared that the First Amendment protected America as a Christian nation with no established church.

You need to do some reading man, I am about done with you. Don't call me names when you have done zero to support your position and the other side has actual information.

You could also do well to read what brought about the First Amendment and the debates that lead to the decisions made by the FF regarding religion and a church of the state ect.






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TheDoc
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doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99296 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


Glad you asked:

quote:

Pagan traditions: Many Pagan cultures used to cut boughs of evergreen trees in December, move them into the home or temple, and decorate them. 7 Modern-day Pagans still do. This was to recognize the winter solstice -- the time of the year that had the shortest daylight hours, and longest night of the year. This occurs annually sometime between DEC-20 to 23; most often, it is DEC-21. As the solstice approached, they noticed that the days were gradually getting shorter; many feared that the sun would eventually disappear forever, and everyone would freeze. But, even though deciduous trees, bushes, and crops died or hibernated for the winter, the evergreen trees remained green. They seemed to have magical powers that enabled them to withstand the rigors of winter.

Not having evergreen trees, the ancient Egyptians considered the palm tree to symbolize resurrection. They decorated their homes with its branches during the winter solstice. 3

"The first decorating of an evergreen tree began with the heathen Greeks and their worship of their god Adonia, who allegedly was brought back to life by the serpent Aessulapius after having been slain." 5

The ancient Pagan Romans decorated their "trees with bits of metal and replicas of their god, Bacchus [a fertility god]. They also placed 12 candles on the tree in honor of their sun god" 2 Their mid-winter festival of Saturnalia started on DEC-17 and often lasted until a few days after the Solstice.

In Northern Europe, the ancient Germanic people tied fruit and attached candles to evergreen tree branches, in honor of their god Woden. Trees were viewed as symbolizing eternal life. This is the deity after which Wednesday was named. The trees joined holly, mistletoe, the wassail bowl and the Yule log as symbols of the season. All predated Christianity. 5






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TK421
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Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
6697 posts
 Online 

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


Where is the constitution being violated? You still have not answered this very basic question.





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TheDoc
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doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
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re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

Where is the constitution being violated? You still have not answered this very basic question.


The state cannot endorse a specific religion






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rsande2
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2006
3423 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

The state cannot endorse a specific religion


Nor has he answered what it actually means to endorse a religion.






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TK421
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Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
6697 posts
 Online 

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

The state cannot endorse a specific religion


You have provided neither an instance of this happening nor specific language in the constitution prohibiting it.






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Zach
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Member since May 2005
61066 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


Haven't read this thread because it's too long but if no one has mentioned it already, the founders who wrote the Constitution were thinking about what was going on in England.

England established The Church of England. Now called Anglicans. It separated them from Catholics who are also Christians.

Re: Tax exempt status. The Christian Church does not get an exemption because it does not exist. The individual churches who call themselves Christians get the exemption...i.e. Catholic, Baptist, Methodist. Even the friggin' Universal Unitarians.






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rsande2
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2006
3423 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

Pagans had the tree first


quote:

and they called it the holiday tree?


No they didn't. Its actually a tradition credited to the germans much like santa claus.

If you want to go back to St Boniface, Doc is in even more trouble as the thought is that he used the triangular shape of the fir tree to symbolize the Holy Trinity of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit to un-believers, and that these new converts began to worship the tree as a Christian symbol.

Either way this guy has yet to put forth anything that holds water. I am all about hearing different views on here and hopefully get to try to see and understand the "other side" but this thread has surely done little to service that ambition.....






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rsande2
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2006
3423 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

Haven't read this thread because it's too long but if no one has mentioned it already, the founders who wrote the Constitution were thinking about what was going on in England.


I have tried to explain this to doc if you go back a page or so in the thread but he hasn't gotten it yet. Perhaps you will have more luck.....






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
34637 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

Glad you asked:


glad you showed this but what is your point for showing this, how does what pagans used trees have anything to do with what we should call christmas trees? if obama decides to put a christmas tree in the white house is he celebrating a pagan tradition?

I know you want to use this to bash religion but that isn't the point of this thread.






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theunknownknight
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
25822 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

Right, frick the constitution


Separation of church and state has nothing to do with the constitution.

quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Show me where congress made a law establishing Christmas trees as the law of the land.






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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Ball, LA - Home, Sweet Home
Member since Dec 2006
26253 posts

re: According to Bill O'Reilly, govt. endorsement of Christianity is OK because...


quote:

You want the Christian religion to be endorsed by our government.


As long as it is not "established" and people's right to worship as they wish (or not worship, if they wish) is not impaired.

You see, everything is subject to a reasonableness standard. I am free to believe in human sacrifice - as long as I don't practice it.

I'm free to believe that any lower case "t"s on Government buildings represent crosses and as an athiest I don't have to like that. Religious expressions are clearly contemplated by even our federal system - the use of Chaplains by Congress, the US Military, as well as National Prayer Breakfast - just a whole range of things are wound up in this and are NOT an imposition on the minority - they are merely a reflection of our national identity.

The US, even in the pastoral 18th century has never been known to have a signficant theocratic leaning - while many of the founders espoused Christianity of some flavor, many were Deists and products of the age of reason. Certainly in the modern, Post WWII experience, even these residual, public and quasi-public observances haven't cause any harm or oppression to anyone, to my knowledge. It passes the reasonableness standard for me.






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