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tylercsbn9 
USA Fan
Tomball, TX
Member since Feb 2004
51602 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:45 pm to tiggerthetooth)
quote:
You don't think he was a phenomenal player in college? Take away his improper benefits from the equation, and you can't tell me Reggie Bush wasn't one of the most gifted if not the most gifted players in CFB.
The exact same could be said for Vince.
And he showed why he should have won the award weeks later against USC
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263459 posts
 Online
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:47 pm to tiggerthetooth)
quote:
You don't think he was a phenomenal player in college?
sure
he wasn't the bset
he wasn't the best RB on his own team
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CGSC Lobotomy 
Texas A&M Fan
Fort Bragg, NC
Member since Sep 2011
7679 posts
Online
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:47 pm to bayoujd)
quote:
Klein has only 1 blemish on his resume. His stats are great and his team had a better season.
That 1 blemish is only scoring 24 points against BAYLOR. To put it in perspective, here are the only teams that scored less than 35 points against Baylor:
SMU (24)
Sam Houston State (23)
Kansas (14)
Kansas State (24)
That means the only two teams that Baylor held to less than they held Klein to are an FCS team and KANSAS
quote:
Te'o's team has a perfect record, and he played his best games in the biggest games - Michigan, Stanford, Oklahoma, and USC.
Michigan: 2 INT, 8 tackles (1 TFL)
Stanford: 11 tackles
Oklahoma: 1 INT, 11 tackles (2 TFL/1 sack)
USC: 1 INT, 5 tackles
Damontre Moore had more sacks against Florida (3) and SMU (2) than Te'O did in the entire season.
quote:
His defensive stats are better than Woodson's when he won the Heisman. The only difference is Woodson's punt return at the end of the year.
Te'O's stats are as follows:
103 tackles
5.5 tackles for loss
1.5 sacks
7 interceptions
1 fumble return
0 touchdowns
Woodson's stats in 1997 (11 games) were:
47 tackles (as a CORNERBACK)
4.0 tackles for loss (as a CORNERBACK)
1 sack (as a CORNERBACK)
7 interceptions
0 fumble returns
3 touchdowns
This post was edited on 11/25 at 8:49 pm
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Patrick_Bateman
USA Fan
Member since Jan 2012
5104 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:48 pm to bayoujd)
Manziel exceeded Tim Tebow's and Cam Newton's statistics for total offense. Both of them won the Heisman. Manziel also led his team to a 10-2 record in the toughest conference in the country and a victory over #1 Alabama on the road. Who else has a better resume than that?!
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tiggerthetooth 
LSU Fan
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
11101 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:49 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
he wasn't the best RB on his own team
bullshite, Lendale white wouldnt have been shite without Reggie. Hell, USC wouldn't have been near as dominant as they were without Reggie. Reggie was phenomenal before Vince was. Vince had a good year in 2004, but had a GREAT year in 2005, Reggie had a a GREAT year in 2004 & 2005, both Heisman worthy years. Vince wasn't even in the debate in 2004.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263459 posts
Online
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:51 pm to tiggerthetooth)
quote:
Lendale white wouldnt have been shite without Reggie.
he did fine in the title game without reggie doing much outside of about 3 plays (one of which he monumentally fricked up during)
quote:
Reggie was phenomenal before Vince was. Vince had a good year in 2004, but had a GREAT year in 2005, Reggie had a a GREAT year in 2004 & 2005, both Heisman worthy years. Vince wasn't even in the debate in 2004.
2004 has nothing to do with the 2005 Heisman
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Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
41132 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:56 pm to CGSC Lobotomy)
quote:
Woodson's stats in 1997 (11 games) were:
47 tackles (as a CORNERBACK)
4.0 tackles for loss (as a CORNERBACK)
1 sack (as a CORNERBACK)
7 interceptions
0 fumble returns
3 touchdowns
By contrast, here are Mathieu's numbers last year (also a corner):
76 tackles
7.5 TFL
1.5 sacks
2 INT
4 fumble recoveries
6 fumbles forced
4 touchdowns
Sometimes, you get lucky with the inferior numbers giving you the Heisman. It happens.
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bayoujd
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2009
1527 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:56 pm to acgeaux129)
Time to debunk his case? 
ND's defense was absolute garbage before Te'o arrived. In his 4 years, ND's defense has gone from 86th in 2009 to 2nd in 2012. That is a quantum leap. Other players have played a role, but if the best player on a top 10 offense typically wins the Heisman, why not the best player on the best defense?
But you're right, his picks were just luck - never mind the fact that he was in good position, diagnosed the play, and made the catch (several of them were of the diving catch variety). Please find an instance in the last 10 years where an ILB (particularly in the 3-4 scheme where the ILB has to take on guards and doesn't have a 3 technique DT to let him roam) has had 7 INTs. Good luck.
I'd like to see more defensive players win the Heisman. Otherwise, just rename it for the offensive player with the best stats.
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tiggerthetooth
LSU Fan
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
11101 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:58 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
he did fine in the title game without reggie doing much outside of about 3 plays (one of which he monumentally fricked up during)
Reggie had almost 200 yards of total offense....averaged more ypc as well, had 400 more rushing yards on the season with only 3 more attempts with twice as many receiving yards on the season.
This post was edited on 11/25 at 8:59 pm
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263459 posts
Online
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:59 pm to bayoujd)
quote:
but if the best player on a top 10 offense typically wins the Heisman, why not the best player on the best defense?
there are some DL on that D > teo
quote:
I'd like to see more defensive players win the Heisman.
that's fine
teo isn't the guy to lead that charge
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Kafka 
New Orleans Saints Fan
too wrong; didn't lead
Member since Jul 2007
58942 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 8:59 pm to bayoujd)
quote:
just rename it for the offensive player with the best stats on the best team
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263459 posts
Online
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 9:01 pm to tiggerthetooth)
quote:
Reggie had almost 200 yards of total offense
his 26 yard TD run was great
he got 26 of those yards on a dump off on the 2nd to last play when UT was playing prevent
he had a 35 yard reception that he fumbled on some pure retard shit
outside of those 3 plays, he didn't really do much
white was a hoss all game
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bayoujd
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2009
1527 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 9:02 pm to CGSC Lobotomy)
I think you proved my point. Te'o's defensive numbers were better than Woodson's - more tackles, more sacks, more fumbles, more tackles for a loss, and the same INTs (as an ILB no less).
Who cares that Moore had more sacks than Te'o? Why on earth would an ILB in a 3-4 scheme have more sacks than a pass-rushing DE?
For the record, Manning should have won over Woodson.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263459 posts
Online
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 9:04 pm to bayoujd)
quote:
For the record, Manning should have won over Woodson.
if you think manning should have won over woodson, and are pushing teo over manziel (who had a better year than peyton could dream of), then my head just exploded a bit
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acgeaux129
LSU Fan
We are BR
Member since Sep 2007
13818 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 9:07 pm to VerlanderBEAST)
quote:
do you actually watch football?
Yeah. Mediocre might have been a strong word since they do have Christine Michael. I probably should have phrased it in the context that Swope was his best target coming back this year, no big-time TEs, etc. He has since done a lot of his damage with a talented but young/inexperienced freshman WR in the SEC.
But you are a terrible poster so I'm not sure why I'm even responding.
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SPEEDY 
Lamar Fan
2005 Tiger Smack Poster of the Year
Member since Dec 2003
54273 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 9:08 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
if you think manning should have won over woodson, and are pushing teo over manziel (who had a better year than peyton could dream of), then my head just exploded a bit
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bayoujd
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2009
1527 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 9:10 pm to SlowFlowPro)
Part of the reasoning for Manning, for me, was not stat based, but because he came back for his senior year despite his status as a first round lock and was a model college athlete and student. Much like Te'o is now, who by all accounts seems to be a quality person and student. I think those factors matter (at least to me) for this award, but are mostly irrelevant to voters.
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GeauxWarTigers
LSU Fan
Auburn
Member since Oct 2010
13268 posts
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 9:10 pm to bayoujd)
quote:
Te'o
No.
quote:
Klein has only 1 blemish on his resume. His stats are great and his team had a better season.
Though it may seem like it sometimes, the Heisman is not a team award.
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RonFNSwanson
LSU Fan
Browtown
Member since Mar 2012
11900 posts
Online
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 9:11 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
he wasn't the best RB on his own team
surely you must be trolling
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263459 posts
Online
| re: Is Manziel really deserving of the Heisman? (Posted on 11/25/12 at 9:12 pm to bayoujd)
quote:
Part of the reasoning for Manning, for me, was not stat based, but because he came back for his senior year despite his status as a first round lock and was a model college athlete and student. Much like Te'o is now,
well then...
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