Is Abortion Murder? - Page 5 - TigerDroppings.com

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MrTide33
Alabama Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
3062 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

Yes, but only for the reason that there are cases of spontaneous recovery from a persistent vegetative state.


Well, fetuses left alone will tend to come out of the vegetative state just as much, actually more than an out-of-womb human






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coondaddy21
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2012
693 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

Abortion is the greatest assault on liberty that has ever been implemented. There are simple, non-religious questions to ask yourself to see if abortion is wrong:

1. At conception, is the new organism living? Yes, the new cells are performing their processes autonomously and are alive.

2. Is the organism human? Yes. The new organism is classified as human.

3. Is the fetus a genetically unique human being? Yes. Since the conception is the genetic combination of two people, the genes are unique to that one fetus.

4. Is the fetus classified as the woman's body or does it have its own body? As described in point #3, the fetus is genetically unique and performing life-sustaining cell functions autonomously. Since it is genetically different than the mother, it is dishonest to describe the fetus as the woman's body.

5. Do we truly believe the drafters of the Declaration of Independence when they wrote, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?" Yes. Humans in the United States have a Constitutionally protected right to life.

The baby is living, human, genetically unique, and genetically separate from the woman's body. The baby should be given every right to love, no matter the circumstances surrounding its conception. It's a sad state that it has to be spelled out like this.



Very well stated!

quote:

4. Is the fetus classified as the woman's body or does it have its own body? As described in point #3, the fetus is genetically unique and performing life-sustaining cell functions autonomously. Since it is genetically different than the mother, it is dishonest to describe the fetus as the woman's body.



This is very true as some have different blood types which require the mother to receive Rhogam prior to getting pregnant a second time. Biologically, in the womb, they don't even share the same blood. Its only the Oxygen and Nutrients that are shared via the placenta.



This post was edited on 11/13 at 10:42 pm


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Wild Thang
USA Fan
America 438
Member since Jun 2009
22556 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

Abortion is the greatest assault on liberty that has ever been implemented. There are simple, non-religious questions to ask yourself to see if abortion is wrong:

1. At conception, is the new organism living? Yes, the new cells are performing their processes autonomously and are alive.

2. Is the organism human? Yes. The new organism is classified as human.

3. Is the fetus a genetically unique human being? Yes. Since the conception is the genetic combination of two people, the genes are unique to that one fetus.

4. Is the fetus classified as the woman's body or does it have its own body? As described in point #3, the fetus is genetically unique and performing life-sustaining cell functions autonomously. Since it is genetically different than the mother, it is dishonest to describe the fetus as the woman's body.

5. Do we truly believe the drafters of the Declaration of Independence when they wrote, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?" Yes. Humans in the United States have a Constitutionally protected right to life.

The baby is living, human, genetically unique, and genetically separate from the woman's body. The baby should be given every right to live, no matter the circumstances surrounding its conception. It's a sad state that it has to be spelled out like this.


Great post. I was gonna try to make a point with my earlier post, but no need.

Well said.






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Matrixman
LSU Fan
Texas
Member since Apr 2010
581 posts
 Online 

re: Is Abortion Murder?


Yes.....Abortion is murder. Why? Because abortion stops a beating heart. More importantly, the world is denied the gifts the aborted child could have supplied. Don't accept that? Then I would argue Barack Obama is the poster child for the pro-life movement since his mother decided against abortion and carried the fetus BHO to full term and delivery. After all using the logic of the Margaret Sanger crowd (and all you progressive liberals) she should have aborted the fetus Barack Hussein Obama. Then all you radical black liberation movement folks (and you capitalist hating white marxist-socialist) would not be rejoicing at your victory.

Enjoy!!



This post was edited on 11/13 at 10:56 pm


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Wild Thang
USA Fan
America 438
Member since Jun 2009
22556 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

Doesn't matter. It is living once conceived. Think of it this way, an abortion kills the fetus in the womb. In order to kill something, it has to first be living, right?



I'm pro-life. Your post trumps my point. Disregard.






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Cracking
New Orleans Saints Fan
Northshore
Member since Aug 2006
2111 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

IMO, this argument can't fly because even if you determine that point at which life begins, which I believe is at conception, you can't defend the interruption of that life which will eventually become a living, breathing, human being.


I agree and I am pro-life, but this argument is about murder/taking of life. If (as I believe) conception is the starting point, so be it. If not, I am willing to change my opinion if it is absolutely proven.






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MrTide33
Alabama Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
3062 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


I believe a premature child was born just this year at 22 weeks and survived, a new record.





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LSUSaintsHornets
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Based Pelican
Member since Feb 2008
6480 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

Well, fetuses left alone will tend to come out of the vegetative state just as much, actually more than an out-of-womb human

Obviously, that's why I followed it with an explanation of how the situations are different. One has lost consciousness and one never had it.







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notslim99
LSU Fan
City of Bossier City
Member since Feb 2005
3647 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

I'm pro-life. Your post trumps my point. Disregard.


Gotcha






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Wild Thang
USA Fan
America 438
Member since Jun 2009
22556 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

I believe a premature child was born just this year at 22 weeks and survived, a new record.



Around 5 months then. Thanks.

So despite the argument on life at moment of conception, which I agree with, Abortion officially is murder at 5 months.

Do any pro choice disagree with this?

ETA: Again, my point is trumped from the earlier post detailing how it is murder.



This post was edited on 11/13 at 10:53 pm


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MrTide33
Alabama Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
3062 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

Obviously, that's why I followed it with an explanation of how the situations are different. One has lost consciousness and one never had it


The next question then is, why is it wrong to possibly take away the chance of conciousness from someone who has had it, but not from someone who has not already had it? Besides, some people in a vegetative state are truly being kept alive unnaturally, which I am against when it is truly their time to die. (Not euthanasia. Just letting nature take its course when it's time) On the other hand, a life is developing towards a long period of conciousness and it is okay to take that away?






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MrTide33
Alabama Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
3062 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


If any pro-choice posters would like to take a look at what 11% of abortion procedures look like Here's a diagram





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MrTide33
Alabama Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
3062 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


Also, in regards to your belief on brain activity, it starts between 5-6 weeks.





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LSUSaintsHornets
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Based Pelican
Member since Feb 2008
6480 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


The question I have for all of you is why does abortion have to be murder for someone to be against it?

I would probably be pro-life if it weren't for the inane idea that a human beings life begins at conception, and and interference after that point is murder.



This post was edited on 11/13 at 10:56 pm


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Wild Thang
USA Fan
America 438
Member since Jun 2009
22556 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

I would probably be pro-life if it weren't for the inane idea that a human beings life begins at conception


When does it begin then? 5 months?






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MrTide33
Alabama Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
3062 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

The question I have for all of you is why does abortion have to be murder for someone to be against it? I would probably be pro-life if it weren't for the inane idea that a human beings life begins at conception, and and interference after that point is murder.


I believe I am for the right to life for developing fetuses if that was the case, and I'm not 100% sure it begins at conception and am willing to work towards a goal where abortions are at first only illegal after a certain determined lifepoint, and then weigh it again to see if life truly begins at conception.






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LSUSaintsHornets
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Based Pelican
Member since Feb 2008
6480 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

When does it begin then? 5 months?

When brain development starts, so a few weeks out. I would be against the vast majority of abortions, but I don't think a day after pill is murder.






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Wild Thang
USA Fan
America 438
Member since Jun 2009
22556 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

after a certain determined lifepoint,


22 weeks has been shown for survival. Are you willing to say cutoff is there?






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MrTide33
Alabama Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
3062 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

When brain development starts, so a few weeks out. I would be against the vast majority of abortions, but I don't think a day after pill is murder.


This would fit my initial plan, and then look at conception and decide if life begins at conception, but you should join us for fighting for all those babies murdered from 5 weeks onward!






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MrTide33
Alabama Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
3062 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

22 weeks has been shown for survival. Are you willing to say cutoff is there?


I'd go further back than that. There's a lot of easy arguments refuting this idea that because they function differently, babies in the womb are not entitled to life. so, yes to your question, but I'd go further back






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